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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

10W oil vs 5W30

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johnny

01-06-2004 11:14:36




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Hi All,

Getting darn cold here (BC Canada), -37C today. Anyways, a question about oil viscosity. I have a '55 Case 500 I use to plow snow with. I have 15w40 Synthetic (chevron) in it now ( I know this is wrong). So I want to do an oil change, but dont know what grade to put in. Some older fellas around here swear by straight 10W, and some like 5W30. It usually is around -15C here in winter. I have a pan heater and circulating heater which I use often to get the beast going. Also, why have some people said in the archives NOT to use ether!? I cant start this tractor at any time of year without ether. What would you use for oil???Your advice is apppreaciated.
thanks,
johnny

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Chris Brown

01-06-2004 19:11:34




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 Re: 10W oil vs 5W30 in reply to johnny, 01-06-2004 11:14:36  
I'm not saying anyone is wrong on using ether and it's ability to damage an engine.But ether always used sparingly has never hurt any of our tractors. We had a 4oo case that got a light shot every time it started for 10 years. I know there were underlying problems that caused it not to start on it's own.Same story with an allis dozer with a 2/71 detroit. I even ether the 560 farmall to even out the cylinders after it is running and the glowplugs just arent all hot yet. I had a neighbor who blew a rod out the side of the block on a 901 diesel ford by spraying alot of ether in the air intake tube. The can should say use sparingly.And I like synthetic oil in the winter and sae 30 or 40 in the summer.I know you're not supposed to switch back and forth.

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Mark in AB

01-06-2004 21:23:04




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 Re: Re: 10W oil vs 5W30 in reply to Chris Brown, 01-06-2004 19:11:34  
Ether has it's place if needed, but use it sparingly. I don't know what you mean by " I even ether the 560 farmall to even out the cylinders after it is running and the glowplugs just arent all hot yet." Glowplugs are heated up and then you start the engine, once the engine is running the glowplugs are doing absolutly nothing. You must have a couple faulty glowplugs and use the ether to ignite the cold cylinders. Glowplugs are not to be confused with gas engine sparkplugs. To the oil question, mulit vis. oils were not availiable 40 years ago therefore all old manuals state to use single grades. Multi vis. oils are a result of modern technology and are far to superior to single grades. granted a 5w-30 never quite flows like a straight 5w when cold and never quite as thick as a 30w when hot, but is very close. I would definatley prefer a 5w-30 or 0w-30 synthetic to a straight 10W. Also the world does not end if you happen to mix sythetic with mineral based oil, they even happen to sell the stuff on the shelf, it's called Semi-Synthetic.

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rpg52

01-06-2004 17:48:13




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 Re: 10W oil vs 5W30 in reply to johnny, 01-06-2004 11:14:36  
I have little experience with diesels (getting some recently) but, on another discussion board, an old-timer recommended using WD-40 instead of ether. He said it wasn't as explosive, but needed to be put directly into the air stream, not through an air filter, and applied while cranking, not before. Others stated that ether problems were partially due to finesse - i.e. a big slug of ether could do real damage, bent connecting rods, blown out seals etc. Long term use ruined glow plugs (if present) ruined rings, etc. I'm no expert, but may try the WD-40 once just to see. My old 3-71 Detroit doesn't seem inclined to start at all below about 50 degrees with out some assist. My $0.02.

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Rlach

01-06-2004 17:47:23




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 Re: 10W oil vs 5W30 in reply to johnny, 01-06-2004 11:14:36  
Johnny,
Some years ago, i worked in a lab where I compared dino and synthetic oils of different viscosity/brand. The temperature was controlled at -20 °C : oils, viscosimeters, people... We observed that 5W30 from CIE A has not the same viscosity of 5W30 from CIE B. We observed that a dino 5W30 was less viscous than a brand of synthetic 5W30; another synthetic 5W30(the most expensive) was almost as viscous as a dino 10W30! The least viscous was a synthetic 0W30. I recommend a 0W40 from JD or equivalent; please note that this oil was not incorporated in the above comparison study. Some CIE claims that high quality 0W40 is as good as 15W40 in limiting wear of engine.
Rlach

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KURT

01-06-2004 15:56:35




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 Re: 10W oil vs 5W30 in reply to johnny, 01-06-2004 11:14:36  
I recommend a 0W-30 or 0W-40 (synthetic if possible) The most important thing to remember is the Pour Point, which is listed on the back of the Mobil 1 bottles, I think that 0W-40 will pour at -50F (that really means it will pour out of a cup at -50F) At my old employer 10 years ago a lab supervisor called me over to this test chamber and said "ever seen -40 petroleum dexron 2 transfluid. I said nope..it was literally gel, not even a fluid at that temp. that is why I now believe in synthetics especially at super low temps.

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Dean Mninnesota

01-06-2004 15:21:39




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 Re: 10W oil vs 5W30 in reply to johnny, 01-06-2004 11:14:36  
We used to use 5w30 mobil synthetic from twenty years ago on the farm, and have used it ever since in valuable pickups etc. The motor always spins over easy and the oil helps with the compression when it is realy cold because it is actually lubricating the cylinder walls when it is spinning over. The risk with ether is that it will blow out you head gasket on a diesel as your leaking oil suggests it already has and on the gas it may foul the plugs if it doesn't start right away. It gets up under the glass insulators and the plugs are never right after that even if you dry them out in an oven, best to just get new ones.

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John R

01-06-2004 14:37:51




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 Re: 10W oil vs 5W30 in reply to johnny, 01-06-2004 11:14:36  
I have a perkins 4-236 diesel in an old backhoe. It needs ether at anything below 50 degrees. Once started it will run all day and restart if not really cold. Been this way for over 10 years and still don't have any trouble with it. Doesn't use oil and it runs good and strong. It is the only one I have that needs ether to start. All the others (6 more diesels) all start ok with litle or no help. Don't know why this one is this way, but I guess it never got weened off the stuff. As for oil, I use 15w40 year round in all of my diesels, but it seldom gets below 0 here.

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buickanddeere

01-06-2004 12:38:34




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 Re: 10W oil vs 5W30 in reply to johnny, 01-06-2004 11:14:36  
The synthetic is fine. It's thinner at -37 than the 10W & 5w30 mineral oil. The oil pan heater makes it a mute point anyways. Tell the old timers to quit living in the past. If she won't start without either in the summer the heat from compression is low and the injection system likely not breaking the fuel into a fine enough mist. Low compression in "rebuilt" diesels occurs when just rings are installed on pistons with worn ring grooves, out of round oversize cylinder walls, sunk valves from grinding seats and valves rathe rathan replacement. The injectors are likely spraying through worn/plugged tips before rated pressure is being reached. Cranking speed maybe too slow as well.

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johnny

01-06-2004 13:20:48




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 Re: Re: 10W oil vs 5W30 in reply to buickanddeere, 01-06-2004 12:38:34  
Thanks for your advice. I guess I am wondering a bit about the weeping oil from one of the heads, that wasnt there when using regular oil - if I should go back to dino oil on an "old" tractor. On another note, this tractor also has an oil-bath clutch - does that metter any using synthetic oil vs dino oil, as I use the clutch pretty hard (feathering it) becasue I have a snow blower on it and 1st gear is sometiemes too fast. ? The injectors have probably never been serviced I dont know, cranking speed is good, starts pretty good really, just with ether - and never without it. It is hooked to the stuff I guess...

johnny

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paul

01-06-2004 13:38:28




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 Re: Re: Re: 10W oil vs 5W30 in reply to johnny, 01-06-2004 13:20:48  
The problem with ether is that it EXPLODES in the cylinder, where as diesel has a really fast-moving pressure front as it fires. Or, the diesel is like a ball peen hammer, & the ether is like a sledge hammer on your combustion chamber.....

The ether is sometimes needed, but in general just bad for a diesel engine - more wear & shatter forces on the piston, head, & connecting rod.

If you always plug in your tractor, use the summer oil in your tractor. the thicker oil is better for a properly warmed engine. The thinner oils are better for starting when cold, but do not protect the hot engine as well when fully warmed & running under heavy load.

Everything is always a compromise.

--->Paul

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