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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

When to weld vs bolt

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Ray

01-27-2004 14:07:22




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I am fabricating a frame to support a generator head on a stationary engine. What are the criteria to determine whether to bolt steel together verses welding it? Welding is faster, but I assume vibrations may break welds but just loosen bolts? How do back-yard engineers decide what to use when? Thanks for any and all opinions.
Ray




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john d

01-28-2004 20:17:32




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 Re: When to weld vs bolt in reply to Ray, 01-27-2004 14:07:22  
If you're a good welder, that's the way to go, unless you need to take it apart frequently.



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Mark

01-28-2004 05:41:03




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 Re: When to weld vs bolt in reply to Ray, 01-27-2004 14:07:22  
During WWII Henry Kaiser built liberty ships in 4 days by welding the plates together rather than riveting (fancy bolt function with it's own built in torque....it cools down after installation..right!)

As the story goes, more were splitting in half, pounding up and down in the N. Atlantic, than the Germans were sinking.

The solution was a 3 foot strip of steel down the sides (forgot how long) that was riveted on (fancy bolt). This solved the problem.

I bolt in heavy vibration and weld otherwise. Weld is quicker but I feel comfortable seeing the "steel clamp" that the bolt offers..... ..... ..... ..however, as of lately, I switched from my old favorite welding rods and welder and got a DC (vs AC only) stick welder and now almost exclusively use the 7018 stick. This combination puts out some mighty fine welds and have yet to have one fracture (they say on the box that the 7018 resists fracturing due to vibration.

The other thing done (of late) is always scab a piece of metal over the joint to be welded (if welding 2 flat surfaces together...like a mower deck fracture) rather than butt joint. Haven't had a crack yet.

I'm not a professional, I'm a 25 year hobby farmer self taught welding. I can do a pretty fair job.

My 2 cents

Mark

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Dave in Mo

01-28-2004 04:48:24




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 Re: When to weld vs bolt in reply to Ray, 01-27-2004 14:07:22  
Weld for rigidity..... ....bolt for strength.....that's why we don't weld airplanes together!



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Chicken

01-27-2004 16:51:05




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 Re: When to weld vs bolt in reply to Ray, 01-27-2004 14:07:22  
I found most times if you got good steel and can weld that works best and is easier to fix a cracked weld than a sheered off bolt



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rhudson

01-27-2004 15:49:52




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 Re: When to weld vs bolt in reply to Ray, 01-27-2004 14:07:22  
you think you got vibrations?! I'm building a frame to hold a 1 cylinder 16 hp diesel engine, 1936 design for a generator (engine weight about 1200 lbs.). every time the engine hits, the frame moves about 3/8 inch in every direction. like others have said, welding is the way to go. if you think about it, the quality of a weld is variable and based on welder skill, and enviromental conditions. bolted joints are strong if designed and engineered correctly (many are not). other than read a torque wrench correctly, the installer has little to do with final strength. all in all if vibration and rigidity is a concern you will need a good welded joint.

one thing i like about welding is that once you drop the helnet and start burning one, you are in your own little world, not many will disturb you while you are working.

ingeneral weld frames, bolt components

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old

01-27-2004 15:09:07




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 Re: When to weld vs bolt in reply to Ray, 01-27-2004 14:07:22  
A lot of times I bolt something that I'm building till I know its going to work the way I want then I weld it up and leave the bolts in also. If its some thing that will take some time and adjusting to make work right bolting is the way to go till you have it right then weld it up



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T_Bone

01-27-2004 14:34:29




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 Re: When to weld vs bolt in reply to Ray, 01-27-2004 14:07:22  
Hi Ray,

It's very rare that you should choose bolting vs welding.

If you need to disassymble a part then you bolt it. If not then a weld is almost warranted every time. A weld is most cost effective and will hold better given time.

Use isolation pads from the genset to the frame. That will prevent most weld cracking problems along with a good engineering design.

T_Bone



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CH

01-27-2004 14:32:10




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 Re: When to weld vs bolt in reply to Ray, 01-27-2004 14:07:22  
A correctly done weld should be almost as strong as the steel it's fused to. Bolting is good if your going to want to take the joint apart.



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