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land prices

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Dan

02-02-2004 18:38:19

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I am considering selling a parcel of farmland I have down the road. It is all very good farm land, and trying to figure what it is worth. I am curious what farmland is going for in other areas. Around here it is about $2500 for farmland and maybe $3500 for woodland, non-farmers have bid up the woodland for recreation.

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Bill Smith

02-05-2004 20:55:37

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

I am in a pretty rural area in N.E. Kansas. No city development where I am at and don't look like there will ever be any. None the less, we see alot of city folk comming out and buying hunting rights from land owners. Gets more common every year and now we are even starting to see people buying land for recreation or investment purposes. Pasture land seems to be going for $800 + an acre. Don't take a rocket scientist to figure out that pasturing cattle won't make that pencil out. Recreational people seem to make waste land (timber and rough ground) bring atleast that same amount. And that $800 + an acre seems to set a basement figure for tillable farm acres. Farmable hill ground will fetch just over that, and good bottom ground would probably run all the way up to $2500 an acre. Seems unbelievable for purely farm ground and recreation since there is nothing else in the cards. Don't see how a young guy would even have a chance to get started in farming without inheriting. Get ready for corprate farming because it is coming in a real big way. I hate to see it to, because I think a smaller operator can be more productive as far as productivity per acre. Oh well, I guess you got to roll with the times.

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Larry NE IL

02-03-2004 21:30:45

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

In our area (Chicago) if you take a pencil and a string, draw a 90 mile circle around O'hare airport you can expect to pay from about $5000.00 per acre to well over $100K. Nearing retirement, I've been looking, and every time I got the itch to buy the prices went way up. I attribute this rise to two main sources. 1) 1031 exchange is working overtime with all the farms being bought out for big bucks by the homebuilders. When a guy sells his 1/4 section for $20K an acre, he dosen't mind paying $5K-$7K for another farm fairly close in, just might sell that one in a few years for double the money.
2) In recent years the stock market took most for a wild ride. There are people out there with more $ than most of us could even imagine. In the Chicago tribune about a month ago, there was a farmer in central IL advertising that He wanted to expand and would pay 6% of the purchase price in rent. Good black ground is going $3.5K to $4K per acre. The money people see the return (avg. 5%), beats losing in the stock market, plus the the land will probably will appreciate also. I don't have a clue as to how a young person can get started without inheriting...that is a shame.
I also think that it's a shame that so many farmers are being forced to rape the land to make a living. I may be getting older, but it seems to me that things are changing...and not for the better. Best wishes, Larry NE IL

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Slofr8

02-03-2004 16:34:35

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

Here in northern Maine an acre house lot near town sells from 7,500 to 25,000. Two years ago I bought 57 acres (15 field the rest wooded) for 470.00 an acre. Southern exposure and 1 mile from town. Hoping to build this summer.

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ShepFL

02-03-2004 09:01:26

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

Around here useable land avgs. $1800-2500/acre. Timberland with trees is $2500-3500/acre. I gave $1200/acre for 45 acres about 10 yrs. ago. Lots of land now available as the timber companies are selling out to developer. Most land for the city kitties runs about $5K or better per acre. In Jax "lots" are running $10K or better.

I have a pending offer on some mixed land (tillable and cypress bay "low ground") for $500/acre. I plan to drain most of it if I get it, (provided bunny huggers leave me alone) We'll see what happens.

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Larry NE IL

02-03-2004 20:55:48

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Re: Re: land prices in reply to ShepFL, 02-03-2004 09:01:26

Hey Shep,
Where are you located. My daughter lived in Mayberry just outside Gainsville while my son in law finished college. I spent lots of time there checking out airports and farms. Cheap ground, but it's either all trees or pure sand. Regards, Larry NE IL
By the way, they moved 1 1/2 yrs ago, He's training to fly jets with the Navy in Meridian Miss. now. That's all trees too, with some hills.

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ShepFL

02-04-2004 06:18:45

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Re: Re: Re: land prices in reply to Larry NE IL, 02-03-2004 20:55:48

Hey Larry -
Located just about 50 miles north of Gainsville. I live in the metropolis of Sanderson 1/2 mile east of the Osceola Natl Forest west entrance. I work on the Southside of Jacksonville. If you look at a road atlas on I-10 I am almost dead center between Jax and Lake City. Still chuggin in the weeds. . .

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Shane

02-03-2004 08:55:43

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

Here in northern IN around us it isn't uncommon for decent farmland to sell for $3000-$4000 and acre and even more if a developer is bidding.

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Bob

02-03-2004 07:33:14

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

Two years ago I bought 106 acres for about 1200
an acre.It is all fenced,about half wooded half
pasture also small tobacco base and old barn in
fair shape.ASKING PRICES RANGE AROUND 1500 to 2000
I am in Ky. about 50 miles north of Lexington.

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greenbeanman

02-03-2004 06:15:29

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

You never know what land will bring until the gavel has fallen.

I had some quarter sections of land appraised in 1982 by two licensed appraisers. Both said it would bring less than $300 per acre.

When the gavel had fallen the one quarter brought $792. The other for a little less.

This land was sold this past October or November for $575 per acre. Another quarter 10 or so miles away sold for $556.

The first two mentioned are good flat dryland cropland. The other is good cropland, not quite as flat.

Ness County, Kansas. Better load up your trucks and move west. Never mind that the place has been having a drought for several years. The normal annual rainfall of 20" will get you a crop most years.

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dhermesc

02-03-2004 06:01:31

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

In Kansas it varies quite a bit. In the Northeast corner of the state all tillable farm land seems to be running $1,000 to $1,700 an acre with a few select parcels of bottem land going around $2500. Pasture land goes for $800+. Thats for unimproved land with no buildings.

You get close to a growing town and the the skys the limit. Watched 80 acres near Manhattan (GO K-STATE) down for miles of gravel road sell for $5,000 and acre one day. Also watched 9 acres near a four lane highway go for for $11,000 and acre. Recently heard of 8 acres selling on the edge of the city limits of Manhattan for $435,000.

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Mich. Farmer

02-03-2004 05:13:04

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

Here in Mich. farmland depends on the buyer. One farm of about 120 acres I know about, brought $4000 an acre, because the buyer wanted it bad. Most woodlots that have a deer track in it bring $4000 an acre. My son paid $6500 an acre for 26 acres of farmland in the center of the state but it is in the center of a lot of developement. Around here it runs mostly $2500 to $3500 for good farmland.

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KURT (mi)

02-03-2004 16:00:37

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Re: Re: land prices in reply to Mich. Farmer, 02-03-2004 05:13:04

In my area of Mich. it is now $15,000 or more an acre. These parcels are 2.5-5-10 acre plots the 10 acre plots are going between 100K and 150K. These are the plots that are split up by owners and they cash in. My parcel in 1998 was selling for $44,500. I bought it for $38K 2 years after it was listed. The guy I bought my 2.5 acre parcel from got divorced and split up his 60 or so acres. I have a fully wooded lot the largest clearing area was maybe 100 sq. ft. I spent 6 months on the weekends dropping and logging up trees. In my area there are farmers who have 100 or 200 acres and sell it off and get their million or so and live happlily ever after. 2.5 acres is the smallest parcel you can get. I do know of an ordinance that says that you cannot clear more then 10 acres of trees, dont know what the fine is or isnt.

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jdemaris

02-03-2004 05:51:26

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Re: Re: land prices in reply to Mich. Farmer, 02-03-2004 05:13:04

Land prices are up, that's for sure. I've been trying to buy some acreage in the U.P. in Michigan, but anything with character is going high. In the past couple of years, I bought 50 acres here in Central New York near Cooperstown for $400 an acre some tillable, some with sugar maples - that was a bargain. Land now seems to be averaging $1000 per acre. Also, recently bought 50 acres in Worth, Jefferson County, N.Y. for $10,000. Last month bought 8 acres in the Adirondacks in Hamilton County, N.Y. for $38,000. That hurts since I could have bought comparible land ten years ago for less then half that. Also, recently sold my mother's crappy little house on 1/8 acre in suburban, New Jersey - seven miles from the George Washington Bridge - for $300,000 and the buyer is tearing the house down.

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Hermit

02-03-2004 07:52:30

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Re: Re: Re: land prices in reply to jdemaris, 02-03-2004 05:51:26

I'm not sure what you mean by character. I live in the central U.P., in a rural forest/woodland meadows area. Deer, turkeys and other critters, with state and federal forest nearby. It's going for about 1000 per acre. Near the cities is, of course, more and farther out in the woods is less. Across the road from me is 40 acres and a small, old house asking about 70 thousand. The only concerns I have about land prices is the property taxes. Having your property values go up sounds so good and makes a person feel richer, that is until the tax bill comes.

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jdemaris

02-03-2004 10:00:29

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Re: Re: Re: Re: land prices in reply to Hermit, 02-03-2004 07:52:30

"Character" in reference to land is, of course, is a relative term. I already live in a rural farming area with mountains, valleys and beautiful views. Deer, turkey, coyotes, bear, brook trout, lake trout, etc. Most on our own property except for the lake trout. I also have no neighbors, which I like, on our 50 acres. I make maple syrup and have a couple of nice stands of sugar maples. We've been considering moving closer to my wife's parents since my kids are grown and this area is losing it's rural and agricultural character. So . . . since my wife is from Michigan, and her parents still live there (they retired and moved from Dearborn to Alpena), we've been trying to find something comparible to this area in Michigan. Seems the state is mostly flat, so finding a piece with some hills or rolling terrain (one of the attributes that I consider as character), is difficult. Would also like some sugar maples. A few realtors that I spoke with in the U.P. describe such land as "Classic" and highly desireable and very expensive. Seems what goes for $400-$800 an acre here brings $4000-$7000 an acre there, if you can find it. Long story short, it's hard to move from a beautiful area to live somewhere flat with scrub trees. Don't get me wrong, I'm not sitting here with my nose in the air. Everyone likes something different. Most of my kids hate this place and live in cities. I have a friend who says his wife can't stand to live anywhere that she can't hear police sirens and firetrucks on a daily basis. So, who knows? We haven't seen all of the U.P. yet either. We saw some nice areas in the western U.P. around the Porcupine Mountains but we saw nothing reasonable for sale. We also found some beautiful areas around Grand Marais, and basically, that's where we've been trying to buy some land. We also looked at some old potato farms in Posen which were priced close to reasonable. There's an Otsego County in Michigan that was named after our Otsego County, in New York - where I live right now. Named by people leaving here, and going there for cheaper but similar land. Another apparent drawback to many parts of Michigan is the lack of junkyards. I know, sounds silly, but this is a tractor forum, right? My old and crappy 1973 motorhome broke down in Alpena, and I asked my father-in-law where the nearest auto/tractor junkyard was, and he informed me that there weren't any. I didn't research the matter to find out where the nearest one was - but panic set in. I've never lived anywhere before that didn't have junkyards. As far as what you mentioned about taxes, yeah, you're right. Big problem around is - city people have been coming here and paying inflated prices for land - which makes bargains hard to find. Then, whenever their assessments go up, instead of questioning the matter, or grieving at Tax Greivance Day, they take it as a compliment and assume it just means their property is worth more. That's just screws things up for the rest of us. We've got a couple of hundred acres of land scattered around here, and in the Adirondacks and on the Tug Hill Plateau in NY - but it's getting so the taxes are too much and we've been considering getting rid of it all and moving on. Problem is, move on to where?

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Hermit

02-03-2004 19:56:43

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: land prices in reply to jdemaris, 02-03-2004 10:00:29

If you look at the area between Munsing, Escanaba and Marquette, you might be pleasantly surprised. Rolling hills, maple syrup farms, strawberry farms, stocked lakes, state and fed forest lands, some dairy and hay fields. The nearest tractor junkyard is about an hour away in Newberry. There are three auto junkyards within a 2 hour drive. And a surplus metal business in Escanaba. The biggest problem in the area is zoning. The county decided they didn't want to do it any more so the townships are starting to implement their own. Right now it's very basic zoning but probably will turn stricter over time. Fortunately, I'm living in a township that decided not to zone. If someone is trying to sell you land for 4000 an acre, you can do better. I may be a little prejudice toward this area. I bought my land, built my house and plan to live in my paradise till I die. What could be better than driving an old tractor through a field in the summer and snowshoeing through the woods in the winter. Hope you find your paradise.

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jdemaris

02-04-2004 07:35:42

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: land prices in reply to Hermit, 02-03-2004 19:56:43

Thanks for the info. I've been to Marquette, I think at a State Park. Real pretty spot, but we didn't get a chance to look around. Looking for property can be a problem when you live a distance away. First of all, not knowing the area, I'm kind of dependent on Realtors and their listings. That kind of weeds out the bargains at the outset. Next problem, is, seems everytime we hear of something that we're interested in, it's sold by the time we get there. Takes us two days if we take out time, and usually, we can't leave the instant we hear about something for sale. Guess I got used to the way things were a few years ago. At least here in New York, properties sat for sale for months, sometimes years - as people made offers at below asking price. Now, it seems, there are bidding wars and properties are going over asking price. We've driven up twice to look at prospective properties, and both times they were sold by the time we got there. Subsequently, we've given up that approach, and are waiting unitl summer to cruise around the area. I've heard and read, that Michigan real esate in the U.P. is getting hard to buy partly due to the early retirements of auto workers. They've got cash, and want their own paradise, and I guess the U.P is to Michigan people what the Adirondacks is to us New Yorkers. My wife is a "Troll" though, so she's really like the U.P. By the way, Adirondack property has also skyrocketed these past few years.

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pasbon

02-03-2004 04:58:57

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

here in south central La. the farm next to me was appraised at 850 an acre and sold for 1100 and acre with an irragation well on it and a 50 x 60 wharehouse. About 150 acres.

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John

02-03-2004 06:08:53

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Re: Re: land prices in reply to pasbon, 02-03-2004 04:58:57

Here in south east La. old dairy farms are appraising at 5000+ a acre (100 acres)
A little closer to town (15 miles to closest wal mart and 50 miles north of new orleans) 3 acres is selling for 7-10,000 per acre depending on condition.

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02-03-2004 03:27:13

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

currently would like to expand my operation. Older gent that joins me has expressed an interest to sell. Looking at 1000-1500 an acre. It is good pasture land that is rolling-the only setback it is landlocked-after he gave his front to his son to build a house, plus grown up and neglected for 15 years. If I bought I would be within another road at 1000 feet that I could never get access to. I would be a good mile from my house to the back of my property. The problem is the uninformed guy who bought some in the spring. 1500 an acre at auction too high? maybe maybe not-the interesting thing is 1 week before the auction he could have bought the whole 185 acres for 1000 and acre and they would have called off the auction. So basically he gave 92000 extra and bid against himself. Then he tried to sell it to me for 1700 an acre. Now he established the price in the area. I hate idiots! But if he sits on it long enough through appreciation he will sell it and make a profit. As indydirtfarmer said at some prices you can never farm it long enough to pay for it. The guys I know who are buying the expensive land in agriculture use-farm it to make the payment if possible and set on it for 20 years where it doubles in value then they resale for a profit. They do not farm it for profit on a yearly basis. Of course they do not take into account that over 20 years they have paid the same in interest for the farm as the land itself so in essence they made nothing but the banks did well. Around here with residential demands, hunters, dope growers, and land speculators its only going to get higher.

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333

02-03-2004 09:29:10

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Re: Re: land prices in reply to jf, 02-03-2004 03:27:13

He might have basically farmed it for nothing, but in 20 years he has saved the amount of the interest payment, which you said is 1500 an acre if it doubled, x 185 acres is 275,000, you would have to have a darn good job, to invest that much in a 401k to equal 275,000 in 20 years assumming a anuall return of 7%. I think your thinking is wrong, I had a 40000 a year job and made a 30% on my stocks and only managed to make 10000 in three years starting from zero, putting away about 3 to 5 % of my salary, some being matched, how much would I have at 20 years at normal rates of 5% I do not think it would be 275,000 maybe a 100000.

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02-03-2004 13:40:23

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Re: Re: Re: land prices in reply to 333, 02-03-2004 09:29:10

How did he save the interest? the interest payment account for a third of amount of taxes you pay. Check out any amoritization table. I think you have the problem with understanding the true value of a dollar, when taxes are taken into account. But its your money not mine pal. People like you want to hear what you want.

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333

02-03-2004 15:28:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: land prices in reply to jf, 02-03-2004 13:40:23

If the farmer buys the farm with the banks money, and lets say he can only pay the interest, the farm is profitable enough to make the interest payments, at the end of 20 years the farm doubles in value sells, pays the rest of the note has made a 1500 dollar profit an acre, no out of pocket costs, other than the initial downpayment cost, which is recooped, and was zero since he pledged other collatteral, It doesn't matter what the true cost of the dollar is he just made 1500 an acre on no investment in 20 years, other than his collateral of course

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Indydirtfarmer

02-03-2004 02:59:57

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

Land prices are going out of control around here. The Louisville Metro area is expanding way too fast. Farm land is "worth" around $3500 per acre, on the average. Land to be developed, that is currently AG land, is selling for $10,000 an acre, in large tract's (100 acres plus) 1 to 5 acre "building lots" are going for $10000 to 50000 an acre. Some "prime acreage" is going for $75000+. We have several acres overlooking the Ohio River, on our farm. My sister, when she challenged my parents will, got a couple appraisals on these acres. A real estate agent she "hired" to apprais them, told her that he could easily get $100,000 an acre for this ground. ABSOLUTELY NUTS! It's impossible to compete with those values, when trying to buy land to farm. It's also impossible to argue with some one when they sell a farm to be "sub-divided" at those prices. You could farm for a thousand years, and not make that kind of cash. Last summer, I bought 194 acres, 2 counties away from the family farm. I paid less than $2000 an acre. We also farm in Grayson county Kentucky.It was inherited from my father-in-law. It's just about as good for farmland, as the Indiana farms, but you'd be hard pressed to get $1750 an acre for it. John

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333

02-03-2004 13:27:42

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Re: Re: land prices in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 02-03-2004 02:59:57

Its all supply and demand, there is more demand than supply, a lot more it seems.

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northern ca.

02-02-2004 21:59:04

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

Sold a 64 acre Pacel last year for 2000.00 Acre. Two Wheel line, potato ground , barely & alfafa. 50 Hp Pump included. Thought I was lucky To Get That in klamath basin, Where We are going To have To Fight For Water The Rest of our life. have more land to sell. Not much future here.

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Davis in SC

02-02-2004 21:58:34

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

I am in Northern SC, at foot of BlueRidge Mountains. 20 miles north of here in Tryon NC Hunt Country, land goes from 10,000 to 50,000/ acre. 30 miles Southeast of here, rolling land only brings 1,000 to 2,000 /acre

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John K

02-02-2004 20:12:54

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

I bought 20 acres a year a go for 150,000 (7500 per acre). 13 acres hay the rest treed. Visability is 360 degrees for miles as it is the highest hill along the main hiway between Edmonton and Calgary. Great site as I am also a ham.

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Eldon

02-02-2004 19:59:30

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

I've got 120 acres of dryland farm ground (flat, not a tree on it) in South Dakota that I can't get $600 an acre for..... ..sure wish somebody would invent a way to move land!

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Mel

02-02-2004 20:30:15

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Re: Re: land prices in reply to Eldon, 02-02-2004 19:59:30

Where in SD is your fsrm land?

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Northern WI

02-04-2004 08:50:36

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Re: Re: Re: land prices in reply to Mel, 02-02-2004 20:30:15

Mel,

We used to have land here in Northern WI that you had to sit on for couple of years and receive offers well below appraised value and then finally sell cheap. However, now pressure from the metro areas to the south (Madison, Milwaukee, Chicago, Mpls/St. Paul) for recreational use has driven the prices sky high. It seems hardly anybody is interested in farming, they all want the land for hunting. The local job market is practically non-existent, but the outsiders don't care since they only come up here to play anyway. The real estate taxes continue to escalate as the land sales get higher each year. I don't where and if it will ever stop.

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Eldon

02-02-2004 21:21:31

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Re: Re: Re: land prices in reply to Mel, 02-02-2004 20:30:15

Gregory county (south central). Guess I should put it into CRP, throw a few pheasants on it and sell it as hunting ground :-)

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bob

02-02-2004 19:58:40

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

just sold 500 ac. in west virginia @$1200/ac. Back country woodland. brushland still sellimg for $500/ac. farmland about $1500/ac.

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JohnDeereBMan

02-02-2004 19:52:58

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

Neighbor sold 2 acres for 300,000 about 5 years ago here in central jersey. Another neighbor sold the preservation rights to their farm for 90,000 an acre.

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toolman

02-02-2004 19:39:25

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

where i live they are selling off whats left of what was once a fairly big farm for this area, and i hear they are asking 50 to 55 thousand an acre, and because of the ski hill and the crowd from calgary they will probably get it, just talked to my assessor today about my assessment, they have my land assessed at 15700 per acre, and he said if i sold it i would get at least twice as much for it , nice but only if you want to sell and you still have to buy something else, oh and im in southeast b.c.

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kyhayman

02-02-2004 19:23:35

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

Here it is totally subjective of which county (and which zoning regs) and it's population to the metro area of Lexington, KY. I'm 1 county removed (20 miles) on good road. Land here runs from $2500-$7500 (or more) for tracts of 10 acres or more. Next county south (just 6 miles away) has way better land for farming yet you can get an excellent farm under $2000. County between here and Lex (which has rigid zoning) land will run from $3000-$40,000 per acre (or more). I've been able to put together some decent tracts of land by watching and looking and splitting off the house and 5 acres and net out a pretty good farm pretty reasonable.

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Mike

02-02-2004 19:03:16

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Re: land prices in reply to Dan, 02-02-2004 18:38:19

Around me a farm is going for 10-12K an acre. If its land that has road frontage and is easily subdivided your looking a ton more. The farmer next to use just sold off 8 acres that had road frontage on two roads. He got 35K and acre. Thats in Lancaster County, PA

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steveormary

02-02-2004 20:27:25

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Re: Re: land prices in reply to Mike , 02-02-2004 19:03:16

Sold some dryland farm ground in central NE about two years ago. It was appraised out at $863/acre and that is what I got for it. A neighbor and good friend bought it. I had tried to get more for it for several years. Auctioner wouldnt start it at $800,said it wouldnt bring that much.

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Terry H

02-03-2004 20:48:23

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Re: Re: Re: land prices in reply to steveormary, 02-02-2004 20:27:25

Too bad you weren't over here by Lincoln. There are boneheads paying over $35,000 an acre! How do they ever expect to pay it off? I bought 25 acres north of Crete 3 years ago for $160,000. 1918 house, pond, pasture, about 10 acres corn or beans, and I intend to stay here 'till I croak!

Terry H

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sreveormary

02-03-2004 21:14:56

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Re: Re: Re: Re: land prices in reply to Terry H, 02-03-2004 20:48:23

Terry H,lived in Lincoln about 15 years. Went west to Grand Island and took over family farm and tried to farm that for about 15 years. Due to health we sold out and moved south to NM.

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