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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

When did antifreeze become common?

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Alberta Mike

02-14-2004 05:31:38




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With all the broken out and cracked blocks up here in this part of the world, I've often wondered a few things about antifreeze (or coolant as we call it today). Like, when did it become commonly available? Was it very expensive and/or hard to find? What types were used years ago? Just doesn't make sense that so many farmers messed up a big investment in a tractor to save a few dollars by using water when it was 25 below and it was so easy to forget draining the block.

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Don Wadge

02-14-2004 19:52:45




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 Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Alberta Mike, 02-14-2004 05:31:38  
I remember my dad saying that when he was a boy they always started the model 'T' in the winter by pouring hot water in the radiator (engine). I also remember him saying that some people used kerosene in the winter. This one is hard to believe today but my dad and his brother drove from Myrtle, Manitoba to Ontario (around Oshawa) in January one year in the early thirties in a Model 'T' Ford Roadster. Got picturs of them leaving home and also leaving to come home. They had big coats on and the Model T had side curtains. My grandparents and family had moved west in 1921.

On the original purpose of this post as I remember it from the 50's and early 60's, it was hard keeping anti-freeze for a long time. The radiator and heater hoses didn't last like they do now

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raytasch

02-14-2004 15:52:42




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 Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Alberta Mike, 02-14-2004 05:31:38  
Some of the guys got the antifreeze thing right but I don't think anyone actually mentioned the reasons for so many cracked blocks. It was necessary to monitor the strength of the mixture in the cooling system because the ALCOHOL would 'boil off' long before the water and leave you with a weak mixture and resultant cracked block. Seemed like during a particularlly cold spell someone always lost an engine. I can remember during and right after WW11 that alcohol based antifreeze was commonly used. Much of this stuff was in short supply so many folks drained their engines and some forgot. My father ran a country store, service station. Antifreeze came in 55 gal drums and a drum of perminant and a drum of alcohol sat right by the door. I can remember folks coming in before a cold snap and wanting their antifreeze tested. ray

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Rauville

02-14-2004 19:54:27




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 Re: Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to raytasch, 02-14-2004 15:52:42  
Looking at an old 6'-0" Red Crown Gasoline porcelain thermometer that has the "Percentage of alcohol required to prevent freezing" marked on it, shows the following: 5% mixture was good for 30 degrees, and 50% was good for 10 degrees below zero. The thermometer has a patent date of March 16, 1915.



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buickanddeere

02-14-2004 15:02:12




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 Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Alberta Mike, 02-14-2004 05:31:38  
Kerosene,oil or water was used in winter. Explains all the silt and scale in some coolant systems along with ruined water pump bearings in later equipment operated by money minded depression influenced owners. After WW II veterans returned home and were familiar with using antifreeze plus the price had dropped and was more widely available.



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MK

02-14-2004 13:17:32




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 Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Alberta Mike, 02-14-2004 05:31:38  

My grandpa had a 1928 Chev car that he always used diesel fuel in the rad during winter. He and my dad bought a new JD D in 1944 which never saw antifreeze until '87 when I restored it back to new. They used it on the hammermill in winter in the 40's and 50's until they bought a 60 and shortly thereafter the 830. They both came with antifreeze from the dealer. I believe antifreeze was available in the 40's here (Alberta) but the old D took alot of liquid to fill the rad and wasn't worth it just to start it once a month in winter. If it was good and cold out when they needed it, they heated water up in the feed cooker with coal and filled the rad up once to warm the block, drained it and refilled it again and started him up.

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Hugh MacKay

02-14-2004 08:52:03




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 Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Alberta Mike, 02-14-2004 05:31:38  
Mike: I was born in Nova Scotia back in 1942. My first recolections of vehicles was a pre war time Buick and a IH W4 my dad bought new in 42. The Buick must have had anti freeze of some nature, as they never drained it. I know they always drained the W4. In 1949 my dad bought a Farmall Cub and it never had anti freeze, drained in fall and not used all winter.

The first tractor my dad ever kept perminant anti freeze in was a 1951 Farmall H. I suspect even then the cost was still quite high. By then my dad was shipping enough milk the truck picking up our milk drove right in to the barn rather than picking up at roadside as had been the practice up until then. So the H had to be ready for snow plowing on short notice.

By the late 50s all vehicles on our farm had perminant anti freeze year around. I do remember as a teenager and even younger being warned not spill any as it was quite dear. Two items my grand father thought more valuable than gasoline were anti freeze and the rain water he collected for using in batteries.

I bought my first vehicle in 1962 and as I recall anti freeze was more expensive then than it is today. In fact if I remember correctly anti freeze never got to be a bargain until the early 70s.

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Stick

02-14-2004 09:42:44




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 Re: Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-14-2004 08:52:03  
"I recall anti freeze was more expensive then than it is today. In fact if I remember correctly anti freeze never got to be a bargain until the early 70s."

More like the very late 90's up here in northern Manitoba. Antifreeze was 15 dollars a gallon here from the early 70's when I came north until about 98, when Wally-Mart came around and forced everyone else to compete. It's still over 7 bucks per.

When I was a kid, dad was in the air force, and always got used ethylene glycol from planes for us to run in our vehicles. We had a garage full of 45 (imperial) gallon drums of it, no room to park a vehicle in it!

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Bernie in MA

02-14-2004 07:59:04




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 Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Alberta Mike, 02-14-2004 05:31:38  
I started driving in the early 50s. We used alcohol (methanol) in the car because it was cheaper. I don't remember it's price, but the so-called "permanant" antifreeze was expensive; a dollar a quart! Remember, this was when you had a real good job if it paid a dollar an hour.

One warm spring day as my father came home from work and was about to drive the car into the barn it stalled. In seconds flames were shooting out of the hood. Somebody got a bucket of water and doused it. Apparently it had boiled over and antifreeze was all over the engine.

When I was in college I ended up cracking the block on my '37 V8 Ford because I could afford the high-priced kind. It had a 22 quart radiator.

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Fern(Mi)

02-14-2004 08:12:32




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 Re: Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Bernie in MA, 02-14-2004 07:59:04  
I remember Mom & Dad telling me about Mom's grandfather useing keroscene in his Model`T''s radiator. I also remember Dad telling me about his jacking up the same `T' to crank start it, having it start and fall off the jack pinning him against the wall. Then there was something about Mom about to act in my father's deffence and his yelling at her "Let it run! Let it run!!!" I'm not sure but what the real old folks probably had more fun with their new cars than we do with their old ones.

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Bernie

02-14-2004 08:04:02




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 Re: Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Bernie in MA, 02-14-2004 07:59:04  
That was supposed to be couldn't afford



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Dan

02-14-2004 07:58:42




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 Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Alberta Mike, 02-14-2004 05:31:38  
Howdy AB,I went through 5 flathead V8s before I found the one that is in the '49 F1,all 4 previous ones were cracked along the oilpan bolt pattern.BTW the F1 is about 75% restored so its still in the resto shop,maybe by fall I will have it out.I would guess antifreeze was slow in getting here,north of you in LLB.



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Kennyp

02-14-2004 07:54:38




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 Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Alberta Mike, 02-14-2004 05:31:38  
I think befor the war...1940s. I know shortly after. BUT, expensive. If I had to guees, about 3 dollars a gal. Alcohol about 1 dollar. But the problem, at least for me and my dad was all our radiators leaked from little cracks from freezing water. I'll bet most others were the same reason. Neibour used distalite in his model A. Prestone was the only one...patent.



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RAB

02-14-2004 06:31:05




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 Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Alberta Mike, 02-14-2004 05:31:38  
Certainly available after the war, but probably only using what was drained out of 'Spits' and the like (as it was used as coolant in them) and so was probably not easily/cheaply available. Probably most farmers didn,t use their tractors much in the winter in those days - I know we didn't in the UK as the farms were set up for manumatic operation. We certainly had antifreeze in the early 50's in our farm van, but I remember the tractors were still drained.
There were two types available ethylene glycol and methanol types. The methanol types were probably available more cheaply but, of course, were no good in a non pressurised system, as evaporation losses would be high. The glycol based ones were probably had inferior corrosion properties early on, but I'm only guessing.
Hope this helps.
Regards, RAB

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Rusty Jones

02-14-2004 08:34:20




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 Re: Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to RAB, 02-14-2004 06:31:05  
Back in the 40's, i can remember my Dad talking about getting alcohol anti-freeze for the cars. I think they used it because it was cheap. But, if ya got stuck in heavy traffic jams, or a stopped train at a crossing, ya'd better shut 'er down, or the thing would eventually look like Mt. Vesuvius, spouting all over! And, it did evaporate as you went along. My Grandad didn't have to worry about the tractor freezing up--he didn't have any! Used horses! But, a poor uncle said he used kerosene at times in his radiator! One time we got stuck in a giant traffic jam, the alcohol heated up, the two bottom hoses blew off my '40 Ford V/8, lost everything 10 miles from home! Finally the wife and i got a ride home in a garbage truck--in the cab!! Not in the back! Ah, for the "Good ol' days!" RJ

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Sid

02-14-2004 06:21:44




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 Re: When did antifreeze become common? in reply to Alberta Mike, 02-14-2004 05:31:38  
You are right to me anyway it does not make sense. However I was born in 1948 and I remember antifreeze was available as long as I can remember and I remember that just about everyone around her would drain water out of their tractors every winter. Most folks in those days had lived through rough times and things did not come easy to them for most of their (if not all) lives and since tractors were only used for plowing and haying and field work and not used during the winter why waste money for something like antifreeze when it was not needed? In my AC WD manual it cautions to drain water from the tractor before storing for the winter. Things were very different in those days.

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