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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

What do they teach in school

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Ol Chief

02-18-2004 22:18:37




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I realize that OT items seem to be very annoying to some purists in the tractor hobby.However, has the police force ever noticed how many replys most of OT ,s often generate.This one is over thirty and maybe we haven't finished counting yet. Surely there must be a lot of interest here.I have ten tractors and two farms and still have time to read with interest this entire page almost every night.I am dissatified with what passes for education these days,but thank God for the dedicated fellows like kyhayman and the other similiar guys who responded here doing their utmost to swimm upstream against the system.

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MacSC

02-20-2004 07:45:50




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 Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Ol Chief , 02-18-2004 22:18:37  
My Friends,
I hope I don't get thrown off the boards forever for what I am about to say. The only problems with the school system and what they teach is what we have allowed to happen. Most of us are older folks as I have been able to gather, and as baby-boomers we have sired one of the worst generations of children known to mankind. Mostly, we grew up in the world of hard knocks and knew we had to learn in school and work hard for our living and by getting there we "swore" that our children wouldn't have to do that. And by gosh they don't have sense enough to keep a spouse, to run the humongous corporations they have taken over from us, or anything else. You and I had these children and did not raise them properly because we were too busy busting our butts for everything that we gave them on the silver platter. Now our grand children, bless their baggy pants and their pink and blue hair with all their nose rings and other hardware in God only knows what body parts are starting to look to us (grandparents) so some stability and guidance because they realize their parents don't have time for them much less any insight as to what the real world is really like. We cannot blame the school system nor the teachers for the shortcomings of our kids now. We can only blame those that we "raised" and have left in charge. I've got a couple or those pierced, baggy britchs kids in my family who have chosen to be smart, respectful and inquisitive enough to get their scholarships to college and have a never ending desire, it seems, to learn. They went through all the divorces and big money jobs of their parents and have managed to survive so far by seeing what their grandparents have done not what their parents have screwed up!

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Ron

02-20-2004 06:21:15




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 Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Ol Chief , 02-18-2004 22:18:37  
I have seen this particular forum used as kind of a "general subject", and don't see anyother place for discussing it.. I believe ANIMAL HUSBANDRY IS an Essential topic in farming... No-one has even Touched on it.. Are there NO Farmers in this site..?? Just tractor-Heads..?? No-one with a Registered herd..??? All anyone is doing is Complain about the Schools and the funding... I know they are lead by College educated Idiots.!! When will they stop trying to be so "Politicly-Correct", and address the Root of the problems..?? The Schools are for Teaching...NOT Pacifying the kids...They are NOT being taught "Restraint" in actions....Don't drive near the School at the end of the day, or you WILL see what I meen...!!!

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Bill

02-20-2004 16:42:40




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 Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Ron, 02-20-2004 06:21:15  
Actually, Ron, the "root of the problem" is attitudes like yours. Get a life! Smile! You must live in a sad world.



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Bill

02-19-2004 20:14:01




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 Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Ol Chief , 02-18-2004 22:18:37  
I'm a 31 year educator so I feel qualified to voice an opinion. In our area (Ky) we basically have good, well mannered students. I'm not down on this generation of young people nor am I down on public schools. For the most part, we work hard and have the best interest of our students in mind. I feel we are offering a very good education to our students. My concern is our lack of sincerity in our culture for education. I must say that in all cases of experiences that we have with students coming to our school from other countries, ie. Mexico, India, Iraq, the families place much more emphasis on education than American families. I'm afraid that the success of our society economically has spoiled our children and caused them and their parents to falsely believe that a good education is not as important as it really is. I will retire after next year. I can't imagine a more rewarding career than the one I've had. Teaching is a "calling", it is not a job! Those who are in education and do not have it in their "heart" should get out. They damage the profession. Yes, we should be paid more because of the vast expense and time it takes to get certified, but, we all knew going in that you don't go in education for the money. You go in it for the reward of helping mold our future generations. I am proud to have hopefully made a positive difference in thousands of young people in 31 years. Many of whom had very little encouragement or hope from disfunctional homes.

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Kermit

02-26-2004 06:23:35




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 Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Bill, 02-19-2004 20:14:01  
I agree with you and for those who wonder what we teach in school. There are people who tell us teachers what to teach. If we do not follow the state and district curriculums the we are asked to find new jobs. Also if we do not teach what they tell us then the students will not pass the test to get their HS diplomas. I teach Special Education so there is a little leeway for me. One thing I try to instill on all my students is respect for all people and the value of a good education. And for the fellow who wondered if we were all tractor heads. I have a couple of tractors and land. 53 Super A, 530 Case, and a Case JX55. (140 acres) in God's country (Oklahoma). Teach in TX

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Craig M in NC

02-19-2004 18:53:16




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 Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Ol Chief , 02-18-2004 22:18:37  
I have taught in a public high school for 18 years and would offer a couple of thoughts. 1. The children that are left behind (no child left behind) mostly choose to be left behind. 2. Most teachers are forced to teach info that will be on the end of course test so that scores for their school will be good. There are still good students but there seem to be more and more who are unable or unwilling to really put forth the effort to do well at anything. Just my 2 cents.

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RN

02-19-2004 20:06:02




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 Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Craig M in NC, 02-19-2004 18:53:16  
Question for students- Who contributed most to society in the 20th century: Henry Wallace,George Wallace, Mike Wallace. See if anybody recognizes which Wallace did what. Bonus Question- Jethro Tull/grain drill relationship. RN.



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teacher

02-19-2004 13:05:26




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 Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Ol Chief , 02-18-2004 22:18:37  
I have been teaching math and science for 9 years and can say that I hate seeing schools blamed for everything. "Most" schools and teachers teach pretty much the same thing as they did when you and I were in school. The usual game goes that parents blame teachers and teachers blame parents. I have a totally different take on the problem. When I was a student most kids wanted to learn and make decent grades because it was the expected thing to do. Today our society, mostly through the enetertainment industry, have de-valued education and outright make fun of it. When you consider how many hours our kids watch TV and listen to the trash called music these days, they are pretty much brain washed into considering education a joke. With that attitude no teacher can teach very much. In my experience, the students that want to learn will learn fine, the ones that don't will not regardless of what I do. I stay after school everyday and invite students to come in for help and even retake tests and assigments that they do badly on. I have about 5 who consistently come in and over 60 who should but have "better things" to do than their school work. As said by someone else, many work too many hours to have time for school. But the majority of my failing students simply don't care and won't try. Well thats my two cents.

Teacher

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Tommy D

02-19-2004 08:47:51




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 Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Ol Chief , 02-18-2004 22:18:37  
I agree that parents share a HUGE responsibility in the education of their children, but here's an example of what I saw just last week:

We have 2 clerks who work nights & weekends part-time in the drugstore with me, both of whom, are juniors in high school. I asked the general question to both of them: "What happened on December 7, 1941?"
Neither had a clue, so I continued:
"Ok, Pearl Harbor...."
Both still gave me the deer in the headlights stare. I gave them more:
"Ok, Pearl Harbor was bombed. By Whom?"
"The Germans!" one girl replied.
"No, the Taliban!" the other blurted out....

Ok..... I explained that it was the Japanese, then asked:
"What war was that a part of?"
"World War One!" was the first response.
"Korea, my grandad was in that one!" was the other response.

My question would WHAT HAVE THEY BEEN TEACHING THESE FOLKS IN HISTORY CLASS????

Just my observations.....
Tommy D.

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i have a thought

02-19-2004 11:53:07




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 Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Tommy D, 02-19-2004 08:47:51  
What do history lessons have to do with getting a job done? I know when Pearl Harbor was, and a lot more about history, but what does it help when it comes time to overhaul an engine? Or maybe sweep and mop a floor for someone in that line of work?

Math and Reading are WAY more important than what happened many years ago, at least in my opinion. What happened in the past is over, when someone can tell me what's going to happen tomorrow I'll listen. OR how about this? Why don't we ever focus on TODAY???

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Simple

02-19-2004 16:38:23




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 Re: Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to i have a thought, 02-19-2004 11:53:07  
"Those who do not LEARN from the past are doomed to repeat it."



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BTW

02-19-2004 16:40:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Simple, 02-19-2004 16:38:23  
That's a paraphrase of a quote by George Santayana.



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Dieselrider

02-19-2004 16:11:44




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 Re: Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to i have a thought, 02-19-2004 11:53:07  
Another reason to consider history is to hopefully avoid the mistakes that others have made in the past. Such as The Roman Empire for example. The way it became a welfare state and crumbled from within. Much like we are doing in our country today in part because we choose not to consider history in our actions. Ok, class dismissed.



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Tommy D.

02-19-2004 12:51:25




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 Re: Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to i have a thought, 02-19-2004 11:53:07  
Hello there Mr. "i have a thought",

I shall digress from even responding to this statement here, as I, like others, come here to learn about and discuss my old Ford tractor that I love dearly. I consider everyone here my "e-Friends", and have gained way too much to jeopardize my prescence on this board to start a flaming response.

I would, however, encourage you to think, atleast for a moment, about all the folks that have died to make it possible for you to rebuild your motor in peace, and in freedom from worrying about some feller named Adolph still in power, or as the case is now, some terrorist wanting to kill you.

You are entitled to this opinion, and able to express it publicly because of events (like Pearl Harbor) in history, and I respect you and your opinion.

Good luck with your engine.

Tommy D.

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Greywolf

02-19-2004 12:22:59




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 Re: Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to i have a thought, 02-19-2004 11:53:07  
But when it comes to why do we have the "rights" to do or not to do things... history plays a big part in our life.

It teaches the struggles one has to do to have privaleges. Nothing in life is free, it all comes at a price.

Unfortunately, the price that was paid for you and I to post our thoughts was paid for by blood of our ancestors, brothers, uncles.

To me, can't speak for others, it's respect and gratitude for someone else paying the ultimate price for my benefit.

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ray

02-19-2004 09:17:54




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 Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Tommy D, 02-19-2004 08:47:51  
I hear you. I asked a young welder what happend in 1776 ...he had no idea. Fresh out of trade school 19 years old. Could not solve one geometry - basic math problem -- we called the vocational school and said don't send any more kids over for an interview. Explained why.

The parents of those kids are probably in the same boat. Each Dec 7 in my 37 years of life we've discussed the significance of this day at home (no I don't remember the early years -- siblings do). We watched men walk on the moon and welcomed dad's brothers home from a far away war as a family--we learned a lot from those two events cause Dad-Mom pointed out the hardwork & sacrifices that were made --not because a teacher said read pages 43-59 for a quiz Friday. You remember what is important in your life to you...what becomes important to you is instilled early on before the schooling begins. Hate to pick on your example but that day in question should be taught by the parents as well as the school.

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Tommy D

02-19-2004 12:59:09




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 Re: Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to ray, 02-19-2004 09:17:54  
ray,

You are more than welcome to pick on my example, and I agree. I tell my 4-year old on a regular basis about how "really bad men" killed innocent folks recently for no reason, and how her "Cousin Blake", currently with the 82nd ABD in Iraq, is keeping them from hurting us any more...Ever!

She starts "big girl school" next fall, and I plan to be a big part of her studies - Probably more than she will like. From someone who had to work his way through college, I know how important it is to gain knowlegde AND understanding - in all subjects.

Thanks!
Tommy D.

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ray

02-19-2004 07:58:05




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 Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Ol Chief , 02-18-2004 22:18:37  
My gripe is more with the mass exodus of US manufacturing off the US mainland. Seems like the kids that became adults over the last 30-40 years created the situation we now find ourselves in for better or worse. d

What should we be teaching our children? List the items. Respect, common courtesy, honesty, integrity, national pride - sense of community, discipline, self maintenance (diet, work ethic,hobbies,self motivation,smoking is bad,god is good...)100% of this should come/start from home.

Reading and reading as a lifelong hobby should start at home as should elementary math.

What are we not teaching today's children? Today's kids seem to be more wordly than yesterday's kids...what has changed -- the worlds changing? I don't have the answers not even close seems like the problem is not the schools. If there are issues with the young ones we should all step up to the plate and be better role models/active in community programs --aint going to happen...blame the schools its easier.

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Les...fortunate

02-19-2004 04:58:34




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 Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Ol Chief , 02-18-2004 22:18:37  
Not trying to absolve the schools, but the ultimate responsibility lies with parents and an increasing # of them are irresponsible.
Any wonder why so many are home schooling? Not to me it ain't.



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BFarr

02-19-2004 03:56:35




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 Re: What do they teach in school in reply to Ol Chief , 02-18-2004 22:18:37  
Wow,
I worked late last night and did not have the chance to check the posting. With over 30 years teaching Ag. ED in two states, I can say with pride that Ag. ED continues to provide students with a quality education.

Please visit a local program to see and assist and also note that the President wants to end Carl Perkins Funding because "only English and Math is important"

Need to sign off now, five students just came in 6:30 am to have morning coffee with me

Bruce Farr
Educator and proud of the job

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dhermesc

02-19-2004 08:55:46




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 Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to BFarr, 02-19-2004 03:56:35  
Amazing. I grew up in a very rural comunity that had a "unified school district" based in a town of 2000 people. No ag classes where offered - wasn't even aware it was common in other schools. But they did have a golf team and one of the best high school weight lifting rooms in the state. Even our shop facilities where crap - used mobile units served as class rooms with army surplus tools.

Almost failed my English class when I wrote a paper pointing out how many students when on to vocation and how few went on to play college sports and none went on to play pro. Not a smart thing to do when the English teacher was the basketball coach.

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Glenn in PA

02-19-2004 10:10:50




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 Re: Re: Re: What do they teach in school in reply to dhermesc, 02-19-2004 08:55:46  
I admire your spunk though!

I guess I got some people torqued up with the jab about salaries, but I think that 99% of all the teachers are doing a good job and are in the profession because they want to make a difference, not get rich. There are a few bad apples in every bushel, who hasn't worked with someone who won't pull their weight? In the NH baler factory years ago, the guys on the line would tell the new guy, you do it right and you do it well, or we'll send you down the line with the baler.

The point I was trying to make with the post was that a lot of parents look at school as a place to park their kids during the day, so they can run them around at night.

Amen to all those who remember what our parents taught us, and what we try to pass on to our kids. It's an uphill battle though, when as you see above, sports, etc consume big $$$, and nobody gripes about their taxes for that. (Ok some of us do...)

It doesn't help when the politicians convince everybody that the teachers are the great evil, and that we need to "pay for performance". That just means they get to bulk up somebodies wallet for all the "testing". Remember, if those "children are left behind", then the government get to privatize the school. Then, there is no local representation on how our tax $ get spent.

Teachers - keep up the good work! I'm glad for what you did for me, and for my children. Everybody on the forum - go to your school board meetings and start asking for answers there. That's why we live in a democracy, let's show our kids what that means..... .

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