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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Awh, now my head hurts!

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Jim

03-19-2004 19:48:05




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The more I try to figure out the towing capacity of my truck the more confused I get! I feel a migraine coming on, sigh...

Any insight you'll can offer will be greatly appreciated.

At this point I am once again thinking -- two trips. 1600 miles round trip each time. Being unsure of my towing range I feel safer towing less weight by making two trips. I'd rather spend a little more on gas for two trips than breakdown on the road with engine, transmission, or an axle failure, and with all that tractor stuff in tow, 6,500 lbs. worth, I'd have to pay somebody to tow it to the repair shop, and then I'd have to pay for my repairs, which I wouldn't be able to do anyway, unless the repair guy would take a tractor as payment cause all my spend-able cash is in this tractor deal, which would defeat the whole purpose of the trip since it was me who needed the tractor in the first place - not this mechanic. And even after being repaired, (providing I could pay for repairs and keep the tractor, which I already said I can't) I'd still be trying to pull a load that caused a breakdown in the first place, meaning I'd most likely breakdown again! Then I'd surly lose the tractor cause my wife would make me get rid of it for causing all this trouble.

How does one figure out a vehicle's towing capacity anyway?

I got out my owner's manual for my F250 but the more I read the less I understood. I don't think that's the way it's suppose to work.

So, using a chart from my owner's manual and following the directions given for gathering my vehicle information to determine load/towing capacity I am still not sure of my vehicle's towing capacity. I think it is 6,200 lbs., total. To me that means if the trailer weighs 2,000 lbs., I can put only 4,200 lbs on the trailer, even though the trailer is capable of holding 5,000 lbs.

Here's the relevant information:

1996 F250
5.8L V8 Gas Engine
4X4 Automatic Transmission
Regular Cab
Rear Axle Ratio 3.55
GVWR 8600
Actual Vehicle Weight 6,240

Trailer is a 7,000 lb 7'X 18' Beavertail, but it's load capability is limited to 5,000 lbs. Trailer's actual weight is 2,000 lbs.

According to my owners manual with the above information I should now be able to determine my vehicle's load/towing capacity. Boy I'm feeling dumb.

Initially I thought 6,200 lbs., cause the owners manual, Trailer Towing Table - page 239 - 4X4 Automatic Transmission section indicates a trailer weight range of 0 - 6,200 lbs. I thought that's pretty straight forward, but then I read, Vehicle Loading/Towing Information and came up with 7,360 lbs., but I got to thinking, I know I shouldn't do that cause my wife says that's were all our troubles start, but I thought, if I got a bigger trailer naturally I could tow more. But then I thought at what point would the bigger trailer theory exceed my trucks ability to pull. That started me thinking I got the 7,360 lb figure wrong.

Anyway regardless of what the tow vehicle can pull, which I can't seem to figure out - correctly, I can't put more than 5,000 lbs on the trailer, this is making me nuts!

However if I put 5,000 lbs. on the trailer then I'm pulling a total of 7,000 lbs., right? But that exceeds the Trailer Towing Table, page 239, 4X4 Automatic Transmission section indicating a trailer weight range of 0 - 6,200 lbs.

I should probably make two trips.

Of course I had to call a trailer sales place to speak with a mechanic knowledgeable in trailer and vehicle towing...

...the mechanic told me that you can actually tow 6,450 on a 7,000 lb trailer despite the 5,000 lb weight restriction stamped on the tongue! Wouldn't that make it an 8,450 lb trailer considering the trailer weighs 2,000 lbs with no load? But that doesn't matter anyway, I can't pull more than 6,200 lbs., total, meaning a load of only 4,200 lbs.

Now my head hurts.

Was this too much information?

There must be a better way to figure this out then reading the owners manual.

Seriously though, I think it should be two trips. Gas is cheaper than a tranny rebuild.

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paul

03-20-2004 18:04:13




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 Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to Jim, 03-19-2004 19:48:05  
Thank you for one of the best messages I've read on here. ;)

There should be a sticker inside your driver door frame telling you the max load you can put _on_ your pickup including passengers; and the total combined weight you can safely _haul_ including the pickup & contents & the trailer & contents.

Do _not_ exceed those numbers. DOT will be very upset.

Your pickup should be able to handle the load you mention, but it depends upon the hitch you are using, and so on. You have one wobbly leg to stand on if you abide by the total gross weight listed on the door frame.

--->Paul

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Aaron

03-20-2004 15:51:35




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 Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to Jim, 03-19-2004 19:48:05  
If it were me, and the trailer had breaks, I'd pull 6,200 lbs. with my 2000 F-150 5.4 V-8 in a heartbeat. My brother has a 1999 F-250 6.8 V-10 and we pull 18,000 on a gooseneck and have no trouble. Breaks on the trailer is your biggest concern by far!



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Brokenwrench

03-20-2004 11:38:18




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 Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to Jim, 03-19-2004 19:48:05  
Somewhere in the manual should be the gross combined vehicle weight.If you can't come up with it in the manual,call your Ford dealer. The DOT guys have a chart that shows the ratings for all trucks,if all else fails,call them,they're the ones writing the tickets.Also call the states which you are traveling through,laws vary from state to state. You are probably in the 11,000 GCVW range,which is pretty close to your computations.Something else to add to the confusion,how heavy a tag do you have on your truck? If you are tagged at 8600,you are limited to the weight on your tag (8600#).Just gets funner by the minute don't it!

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George G

03-20-2004 07:34:55




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 Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to Jim, 03-19-2004 19:48:05  
I think your GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating) is on a tag on the driver side door. It should be around 13500 lbs. Now take your truck and trailer and yourself and whatever else you plain on taking with you and get it weighed. Now subtract that weight from your GCWR (13500). Now you know how much you can put on the trailer. Now, the DOT guy's are a good bunch. If you get your figures wrong, and they stop you. They will be more than happy to give you a piece of paper telling you how much over your GCWR you are. Then the next time, you will know for sure. Have fun !!

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john

03-20-2004 11:01:21




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 Re: Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to George G, 03-20-2004 07:34:55  
I agree with george. Total load truck trailer every thing should be under or at GCVR.
And yes the DOT will let you know if you added wrong if they stop you. They will even let you know if you have the load in the proper spot on the trailer.
I got one of those papers to let me know I added wrong the other day. In our state they allow you 15,000 on steer
34,000 on drive 34,000 on trailer
80,000 total
for my size truck. They also give you a grace of 500 lbs any where so as long as you are under..
15,500..34,500..34,500..80,500 they will let you go.
I was 11,900..34,350..34,270...80,520
Cost me $30.00 for 20 pounds

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Greywolf

03-21-2004 04:50:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to john, 03-20-2004 11:01:21  
Just a tiny note to your figures.

The 15000 on the steers is if you have the tires to handle it.

With 11 X 22.5 or 11 X 24.5 max allowed is 12,000. That's federal. You can go up to 20,000 on a single axle if the bridge is correct and you have the correct size tires.

Rule of thumb is 1000# per inch of tire on singles.



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john

03-21-2004 05:41:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to Greywolf, 03-21-2004 04:50:59  
That's the thing about federal law. Every one thinks it is the final word. Not true. The federal law is to set a minimum and was set up to do away with some states setting below average standards like 78,000 gross ect. thus allowing a truck to meet one standard and travel coast to coast.
A lot of states have laws that allow more than the federal minimums like Florida's weight on a single axel with duels. Federal is 20,000; Florida is some thing like 24,000. A lot of north west states have larger weight allowances also.
As you can see from the chart below our state allows 15,000 on a 11" steer axle. We also allow 34,000 on a tandem axel with duels on interstate but it goes up to 36,000 on non interstate roads.

third party image

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Jerry A.

03-20-2004 05:43:03




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 Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to Jim, 03-19-2004 19:48:05  
Be wary of overloading! The trouble with the truck's engine and tranny are only part of the issue. Being able to stop all that mass while still under control is another big problem. That's another reason why weight restrictions are put on equipment.

I've "cheated" on weight (not big loads) when I've only been going done the road a few miles and probably didn't get over 30 MPH, but I wouldn't take to the highway with such loads.

I've seen guys on the road with loads I know aren't safe. I just try to steer clear (literally!).

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Willy-N

03-19-2004 20:22:54




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 Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to Jim, 03-19-2004 19:48:05  
6,500 lbs is a Heavy Tractor what kind is it? Are the tires filled? That would weigh it down around 1,400 lbs or more depending on the tire size. My 18.4 X 16s weight around 850 lbs each filled. So it they are drain them and take some of the load off the trailer. Drain the fluids, fuel, water for more weight reduction. they could add up to another 100+ pounds too. Mark H.



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kyhayman

03-19-2004 20:21:46




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 Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to Jim, 03-19-2004 19:48:05  
A lot of info and still not enough :-). Is the trailer a bumper hitch or gooseneck? I've never seen an 18' gooseneck with 3500# axles and you should be able to tow upwards of 15,000 on that. I wouldnt hesitate to put 10,000 behind any 3/4 ton made, hauled that with my 1/2 ton lots of times (fertilizer buggys on a frame hitch).

Seems like my GCVWR is something like 24,250 on a 3/4 Dodge. That's plenty. I usually run around 20,000 (5500# of truck, me, fuel, and tools, and 14,000 of trailer, load, etc).

I'd make sure of the trailer, but I think the truck would be fine. Be sure to lock the OD off.

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mark

03-20-2004 11:18:51




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 Re: Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to kyhayman, 03-19-2004 20:21:46  
With that load here in Md,the DOT guys would lighten your wallet about$1500.Maximum GCVW on a Dodge manual trans.dually,out of my owners manual is 16,250,when you go down to a single wheel 3/4 ton,and you're at right around 12000#.



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kyhayman

03-20-2004 16:12:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to mark, 03-20-2004 11:18:51  
Better look again, either that or we have differnet years. I just got mine out because I wanted to see for sure. Page 158 of the Dodge 2001 owners manual, for quad cab 4wd, 2500, 5.9L24vHO 6 spd with all axle options is 20,000 exactly.



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George G

03-20-2004 13:17:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Awh, now my head hurts! in reply to mark, 03-20-2004 11:18:51  
Here is a link for the GCWR for the Ford trucks.
http://www.fordvehicles.com/Trucks/superduty/features/spectowing/



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