Tractor rollover

Jim asked for websites and information, even stated that he knew there were lots of variables involved, etc. What did he get? Some decent info, and a LOT of the tried and true "if you have to ask, you shouldn't have a tractor" attitude.

Roll-over can, and does, happen more frequently than any of us want it to. It does tend to be more dangerous with "Yesterday's Tractors" than the newer models. It does tend to happen more with inexperienced operators.

Thanks to those who provided the websites with some good data. I've read and bookmarked those sites, and I'm no beginner.

I have an H and C Farmalls that I use all the time. I know for sure that it would be impossible to get away from the C if it was going to tip over, and I am almost sure that the H is the same way. I like to keep the edge of the hood inside the tire track. Even then it seems pretty steep.

I guess people who have never made a mistake can afford to be so critical.

Wheres the power window switches?
Does this thing have side air bags?
Open station? You mean like a convertible?
Do you really have to get off to hook up the mower?
I'm done! Could you teach my gardner instead?

The only way a tractor can tip over is if *something* is moving, either the tractor, a loader bucket, something. Which means the rollover angle at rest is completely useless, except to an ambulance chasing shyster.

P.S. Throw away all of your torque specs. The Universal Law Of Bolt Torque " 3/4 turn past stripped, then back off 1 full turn." ;>)

On the other hand, your very first message seemed to be exactly the same way to _me_ - a bit disrespectful of a thoughtful & meaningful discussion of using tractors.

In the eye of the beholder I guess. :)

So, could you elaborate why you think your tilting info has any meaning or point to it? I'm still not understanding what it is you want to accomplish with this thread. It seems from the replies you've gotten, a lot of folks feel a bit as I do - what's the point?

Perhaps if you elaborated a bit on the goal you have, we could discuss the topic more than the motives. :)

Lots of folks (as I do, in my long message below) feel your goal is unattainable or only set up to sue machinery manufaturers & live off of other peoples' money. Could you explain how or why a chart or meter would be of any use to anyone?

--->Paul

I read the posts at tractor by net . com & just shudder at times.... When guys talk about driving across the lawn on 3 wheels because of the big load in their compact loader. Or tipping over for the second time & still operating on the same slope - same way..... Argh!

There are people who don't think - and we have to consider that too when we converse here. Taken by itself, your first message seems to be written by someone very inexperienced & looking for a way to make money in a lawsuit. Probably a wrong conclusion, but you know - human nature. ;)

A lack of any followup from you kind of re-enforces that thought.....

And of course, that leads to speculation & rather demeaning replies to you, or really just general replies to no one in particular.....

Otherwise, I understand what you are saying, and I hope some of the links & info people have given have helped you. I personally feel there is no number that would have any meaning or relationship to the real world, and that is why there is none available.

I also hope I or anyone else has not scared you off from here. It's just human nature to speculate on why some info is wanted. I at least haven't meant anything with my comments, and hope to see you around here more.

Good luck,
--->Paul

• HICAHS

I do not understand the tilt meters at tractor by net.com and the like. Watch where you are driving, not some silly meter! IMHO ;) They are really facinated with these devices over there, & I do not understand why. What good does it do?

Speed is as important as angle of lean - that is why you will never get useful data. Along with all the variables you can think of with wheelbase & loaded tires & implements & weight of the driver & how full is the fuel tank; add a gopher mound, tire blowout, or someone using 4th gear instead of 2nd, and all the charts & hi-tech meters are worthless.

It all depends on your hill & your tractor/implement setup at your speed and the attention to detail you are using. And the risks you are willing to assume with tire failure & stumps/ gopher mounds/ badger holes.

Do you have a sickle bar mower on the 3pt, are you turning in a curve up the hill or down the hill? We have about 100 variables on just this one operation....

1000 variables, 1000 different charts - worthless. Just go with your gut, and have a good well experienced somewhat timid gut.

A number means nothing here. You have to be involved & understand the situation.

Even if you got some meaningful number for a basic tractor model in some basic configuration, that would only be good for a bare tractor. When do you drive that way, what is the point? As soon as you hook something up to it, the numbers go out the window - everything changed again.

It's like saying 55mph is safe to drive. Yet 1000's are killed on the highways every year, and lots of people going 80mph live just fine. The number is actually quite meaningless to any one situation. A speed limit or a tilt number is just a compromise, and doesn't mean anything in any one situation. An S curve on the county road says 45 mph - with the lumbering big pickup & a loaded trailer, that is pretty fast, I feel better at 40mph! I've taken it many times at 65mph with the car & that works just great.

What good does some number on a piece of paper do you?

Sorry I'm so wishywashy, I should try to offer my opinion better? :)

--->Paul

I've seen a lot more pretty good folks butchered by quack Drs than I've seen Drs butchered by pretty good folks.

I bet you want a tax rollback and school vouchers too, and even free books and paper for the little ones home schooling.

A few doctors are incompetent or make a mistake. That hurts people. Inurance, which is paid by the fees charged to other patients, pays for these mistakes. So all of us pay - not the actual doctor making the mistake.

A few people make a living off suing doctors on sham cases. They get free money. Which is paid by insurance companies, which is paid by other paitents fees. So all of us pay - not the doctor. And some jerk gets free money.

In no way does the doctor ever pay the bill for these mega-buck cases. Lawyers make a lot of money, and guess what - the lawyers fees on both sides end up being paid by the govt or the insurance company - which is paid by taxes on all of us, or patient fees on all of us or insurance rates on all of us.

In no case, in no event, does a doctor making a mistake ever pay the bill for his mistake.

You choose to _defend_ this system?????

It is foolhardy.

It needs to be fixed.

This is nothing about politics, or if you are pro or anti any political party - which you want to make it into.

No, this is about getting a fair legal system, where a doctor doing something wrong would actually be held responsible for it. And the rest of us pay for _medical_ bills when we go to the doctor - not someone else's mistakes or greed.

You cannot seriously defend the current system of exponential medical fees which do not go to medicine?

--->Paul

If ye keep up with or read ever once in awhile about them drunk Drs taking the wrong leg off a diabetic or tying the wrong line shut on a heart surgery do you mean these folks that got crippled need to just go away so yer insurance rate will go down??

If that's yer reasoning then hang on for the bad news. Insurance rates don't go down.

We need a different system. This one does not work. Punish the people who do wrong. Let the people who do good work work. Punishing everyone is senseless.

Doc wasn't paying attention, so he missed mom's cancer for 6 months - gave her antacids. She passed away in '99. Dad was getting senile, doc said it was fluid in his head so put a shunt in. He woke up with serious complications, was obvious later that he had a stroke durig the surgery - but never did have a followup from that doctor. He shrugged his shoulders & said sometimes it doesn't work out. Dad passed away 6 months ago.

Should I be expecting a pile of money from these dudes? Will it do me any good? Will it put them out of business? Will they actually have to pay one nickel of it?

No, they would still be practicing; and you & I would be paying for it on our next doctor visits.

Senseless.

If you want to get rid of the bad doctors - then work on that. The current medical insurance system only keeps them in business.

--->Paul

I know from past experience such as you mention--that just like anything else the knowledge for quality of the Dr is 20/20 hindsight.

Surely yer not saying we use ill or injured folks as guiney pigs for the medical branch to weed out a bad Dr??

But right now, what do we have? I don't see what we have working or helping anyone.

If Ma or the kid dies because the doctor is an idiot, will $100,000 or $10,000,000 make me feel any better? Not really, same difference. I got a bit of money, and one less family member. The bit of money don't matter all that much.

Will a $100,000 or $10,000,000 settlement against the doctor make any difference to him? Not really - it's paid by insurance, not out of his pocket.

So, to get even with or to weed out 'those bad doctors' raising the settlements or restricting the top amount of settlements really isn't going to matter.

If the goal is to get rid of bad doctors, we have to do it with something other than insurance claims.

We'd need to make the doctor pay out of his own pocket; make him stop practicing in this country; or something.

Just inflating settlement amounts ain't gonna get anything done but make us all pay more for medical coverage. I don't see how that helps solve any problems, or the medical services of this country, or the fabric of our society.....

Reducing settlement amounts ain't really going to make doctors any _worse_ than they are right now. It would make medical bills for all of us more affordable. I don't think we should _just_ reduce settlement amounts, but coupled with some other legeslation to contain bad doctors - it might not be a bad thing for the fabric of our country.

I don't expect things to change at all, actually. We will have high payouts, bad doctors, and skyrocketing medical bills for some time to come - the current system.

--->Paul