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Basic Diesel engine question that can't be answere

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Shane

07-04-2004 10:00:32




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We have a livid thread here (read through the whole thing, gets to my question after the first few posts) BTW I am AlbinoRhino there. I can't seem to understand what makes a diesel engine spin faster. Anyone here know exactly what makes these things work?




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fox

07-05-2004 05:24:17




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 Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can't be ans in reply to Shane, 07-04-2004 10:00:32  
The answer to the question abour more rpm is all in the governor. All modern diesels use an injection pump that has a govenor built into it. Exception is the electronic pump.
Take the 4020 deere for example, you can adjust the pump for more fuel and it will get to the max rpm point quicker but not exceed it till you modify the govenor for more rpm. Rpm is what is rough on diesel engines.



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Shane

07-05-2004 10:05:44




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 Re: Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can't be in reply to fox, 07-05-2004 05:24:17  
Ok, so what does the govenor do exactly to stop the increase of rpm's?



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fox

07-05-2004 17:32:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can' in reply to Shane, 07-05-2004 10:05:44  
I am not a pump expert, but on an inline pump the gov. simply pulls the rack back to the required point.On a rotary pump it must do something similarly but in a rotational direction.
It sounds like you want to rev a diesel higher than allowed by factory settings, is this correct?
You may find quite a few issues it you stretch or shim springs!!
It is best to find a qualified diesel shop to mod your pump.

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TIM

07-05-2004 04:52:04




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 Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can't be ans in reply to Shane, 07-04-2004 10:00:32  
If your question is why the 6.5 TD in the GM trucks smokes HEAVY BLACK SMOKE,when someone answers that i hope i catch the answer too. I have one that smokes exessively black smoke and has no power,and yes it has new injector pump that was installed by a mechanic who supposedly knew what he was doing but still i leave a smoke cloud for a ways up the road when taking off.



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Shane

07-05-2004 10:03:20




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 Re: Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can't be in reply to TIM, 07-05-2004 04:52:04  
Just sign on to that website I linked too and those smart fellas there will help ya a bunch! Really smart guys there.



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Ron

07-05-2004 10:18:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can' in reply to Shane, 07-05-2004 10:03:20  
Yea, right! One of them who claims to be a GM tech can't figure ut why HIS TD belches heavy black smoke! Be afraid, be very afraid.



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Ron

07-05-2004 06:15:41




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 Re: Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can't be in reply to TIM, 07-05-2004 04:52:04  
It's usually not the pump, it's usually the injector timing and/or pulse width (duration of shot). That's controlled by, you guessed it, the $^%@# computer.

You are not likely to get much help at a $tealer but you might find an OTR diesel service shop that also works on light truck diesels. These guys can usually find the problem pretty quickly and reprogram the computer if necessary.



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Ray,IN

07-04-2004 23:50:18




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 Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can't be ans in reply to Shane, 07-04-2004 10:00:32  
The answer is in the articles in this link. This is the best website for explaining diesel power I have ever found. I think mrb is thinking along the same lines.



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msb

07-04-2004 16:50:42




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 Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can't be ans in reply to Shane, 07-04-2004 10:00:32  
Going to give it a whirl.First of all,I take opposition to the guy who said there is no such thing as a too lean setting on a diesel.That statement is absolutely not true.I once had a customer haul his turbocharged 4020 half way across the state so I could take a look at it.He had just had a dealer install the turbo without readjusting the fuel output of the injection pump.It was running an exhaust temperature of 1300 degrees and was still short of the power it should have had with the turbo on it.1300 degrees way above what those aluminum pistons could stand.I increased the fuel setting to where it should have been set and the exhaust temperature dropped to 1100 degress at full load on the dynomometer.Now here is the key to understanding how a diesel fuel/air mixture works.It takes a certain amount of compression to fire the fuel.Once the cylinder fires,something is going to happen.After that the fuel/air mixture can be too lean which causes excess heat or the fuel/air mixture can be too rich which causes too much heat( and excess smoke in the process.)So you are thinking just why doesn't the engine speed simply increase,right?Its the balance of air/fuel mixture that is SO important and is the difference.In the case of excess fuel (and smoke)there is simply not enough air to burn the excess fuel so it goes out the exhaust and remains unburned or only partially unburned at best.Once a diesel engine attains the speed the the govenor calls for ,the air fuel mixture becomes balanced and should produce very little smoke.If it continues to produce excessive smoke at a constant engine speed then there are other problems with the fuel system or the engine itself.I hope this very brief explanation will at least help you understand the situation,bob

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Burrhead

07-04-2004 21:03:33




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 Re: Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can't be in reply to msb, 07-04-2004 16:50:42  
I went over there and read the fellers idea you have opposed. He's right with what he said.

You need to study up on aneroid valves and turboes then I can give you a retest.



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msb

07-04-2004 22:31:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can' in reply to Burrhead, 07-04-2004 21:03:33  
Ready for that retest.LOL.And I will stick to what I said .I was probably one of the first to figure out how to short circuit an anneroid valve back in 1973.We refered to them as hemmoroid valves back then.I also did some research work with turbos for Sweitzer back in those days ,so I am fairly confident of what I speak.The guy is correct when the govenor and engine speed meets an equalibrium.The problem of either underfueling or overfueling is when the two aren't in balance when the govenor is either calling for more or calling for less fuel and the mixture is not in balance with what boost the turbo is producing.Yes ,an anneroid valve does help and the newer computer controlled fuel systems are a great imporvement but not perfect as yet in my opinion.The problem back in the old days was really excaberated when Sweitzer tried to turbocharge a Chevy Vega in the seventies Never could keep a decent balance of air/fuel mixture even with a wastegate.Oh why didn't I listen to that small voice that said don't enter into this discussion.LOL,bob

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Burrhead

07-05-2004 14:07:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Basic Diesel engine question that in reply to msb, 07-04-2004 22:31:04  
Yeah I was in on turbo installation on 220 Cummins and Mack Thermodynes. The only problem we had with Sweitzer was knocking holes in the tops of pistons.

I don't remember what the cfm compression ratio difference was on a Sweitzer and the Air Research but the Air Research was not nearly so powerful and did'nt burn up as many pistons.

Alright if your ready take a seat and clear your desk for the test and don't be peeking over your buddy's shoulder.

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Burrhead

07-04-2004 13:34:26




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 Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can't be ans in reply to Shane, 07-04-2004 10:00:32  
yeah I know waht speeds them up. It's like Cubber said. The rpm and hosspower are determined by fuel flow.



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49 Cubber!

07-04-2004 13:27:21




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 Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can't be ans in reply to Shane, 07-04-2004 10:00:32  
Your comparing a governed engine to an ungoverned engine.I cant explain it as I tyoed it several times to get it to make sence,but like in the truck engine,you sending a certain amount of fuel to each injector to accelerate or maintain a certain speed or load,by increaseing the "amount" of fuel to the injectors your increasing HP.On the tractor,the engine has a set speed at which fuel is "slowed down" and by turning up the pump your increaseing the HP at a ceratin rpm.Understand?

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Ron

07-04-2004 10:47:40




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 Re: Basic Diesel engine question that can't be ans in reply to Shane, 07-04-2004 10:00:32  
Yes, now exactly what is your question?



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