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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Brass tags NOT worth more!!!

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JD

07-27-2004 20:21:10




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Geeez---when will you people get it in your head that just because a JD A, B, or whatever has a brass tag it's worth more. It ain't worth a dime more but for some reason everyone including auctioneers think they are. Read some of the articles by Mr. Thinker or JR Hobbs----they both say the same thing---not worth a dime more. But I guess if you think it is worth more than so be it----but I'm not giving you anymore for it!!

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T213R

07-28-2004 12:57:53




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 Re: Brass tags NOT worth more!!! in reply to JD, 07-27-2004 20:21:10  
When someone excitedly proclaims "BRASS TAG", all it means is that they are too uninformed to be able to tell you the model year of the tractor! A brass tag is nothing special! ALL tractors made during those years had them. BIG DEAL!



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Jon C. - florida

07-28-2004 17:04:00




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 Re: Re: Brass tags NOT worth more!!! in reply to T213R, 07-28-2004 12:57:53  
Er- not exactly. Brass tags were only put on the first year issueof that particular model.. So it wasnt "years" of each model, but "year". For example, the 1935 "B" is the only year with a brass tag, as it was the first year that it was manufactured. From 36 on, they were aluminum, I believe.

(Maybe I misunderstood your post.)



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G-MAN

07-29-2004 07:59:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Brass tags NOT worth more!!! in reply to Jon C. - florida, 07-28-2004 17:04:00  
That's incorrect. I have a "70" in the shop right now, serial #11,xxx, making it a '54 model. Production started with the '53 model. As was posted below, tag material varied based on what was available and currently in use, as was posted below. I've seen brass, aluminum and steel. People put far too much stock in what they presume adds value to a tractor. How many "slant-dash" "A"s have you seen advertised, like "slant-dash" is something rare? There are tons of "slant-dash" "A"s out there. It's "slant-dash" "B"s that are rare. It was posted below that the market is what dictates value, not individuals. I beg to differ. The market is MADE UP OF individuals. If Farmer Bob has a 730D that he thinks is worth $15,000, is that its value? Not until somebody pays him that for it. We're not dealing with list, retail and wholesale prices here. We're dealing with individual transactions.

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Jon C -florida

07-29-2004 12:07:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Brass tags NOT worth more!!! in reply to G-MAN, 07-29-2004 07:59:51  
Well, I certainly stand corrected, if that is the case. I need to do a little further research on this brass tag thing I guess.

I did know about the steel war tags, and I have four unstyled B's that were made after 1935, all with alunimum tags, and I have two 1935 B's both with brass tags. I also have five A's from 1935 to 1950 all with aluminum tags, (The A's started in 34) and none with brass.

My 1927 D, 1954 "60", 1958 "720", "320" and "330" all have aluminum tags I think (now I have to re-check), but they are not "first year" tractors.

And I think both my 37 and 38 "G's" have aluminum tags, even though technically 1938 was the "first year" for the G's - I don't think either have brass tags.

So, maybe its just the B's that was first year as a brass tag...as I have yet to find any brass tag on anything other than a 1935 B, first year.

I think we are saying the same thing about markets and individuals. Of course markets are made up of individuals, but many, many individuals, and what just one individuals opinion of value is is of little consequence, if it is contrary to the vast majority regardless of the reason.

Interesting...now you got me thinking!

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G-MAN

07-29-2004 13:56:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Brass tags NOT worth more!!! in reply to Jon C -florida, 07-29-2004 12:07:37  
J.R. Hobbs has covered this brass-tag thing at least once that I've seen, and his contention is that it doesn't affect the value of the tractor one bit. Of course that is his opinion, just like we have ours. Mine happens to agree with his. I just worked on a 4430 that had a brass serial number tag, and I don't think it would bring one more dime than another just like it with a different tag. Sure, it's a newer tractor and not an "antique", but it is a brass-tag after all, so it should be worth more? I don't think so. It's just a plate with numbers on it after all, and seeing how easy it is to steal and swap the darn things, it really becomes less of an issue to value. My main point is that these are machines built decades ago, and other than a few very rare cases, no one knows for sure how many of any are left. And we're not really dealing with lots and lots of potential buyers. For something like a plain old "A", yes. For something rare like your 330 or a hi-crop "G", no. Because of the perceived "value" of those things, the list of people able and willing to afford them is small. I don't put much stock in tags, as you can tell. I bought my '48 "G" because I wanted a "G" and the price was right, not because it had a readable tag. The features it has easily identify it as to what era in "G" production it came from. The only thing that differentiates it from the others is it's tag, but what does that really mean? Heck, for all I know, it could have had a broken main case way back when and could have been rebuilt using a case from another tractor.

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Jon C -florida

07-29-2004 14:18:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Brass tags NOT worth more!!! in reply to G-MAN, 07-29-2004 13:56:32  
All good points. I was sort of thinking that the brass tag, (as it relates to a B anyway), simply meant that it was a 1935, and since it was a "first year", even though there is a "rarer" B, means a little something to a collector. So if there is a choice between a "first year" tractor and not a "first year" tractor with everything else being equal, I would pay a bit more for a "first year"....or Brass tag, in the case of a B.

As far as utility or practical use of the tractor, lets face it, a modern tractor will run rings around my old junk, with or without a tag.

I need to read JR Hobbs and more about brass tags so I will now what I'm talking about.

thanks G-man!

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G-MAN

07-28-2004 07:51:15




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 Re: Brass tags NOT worth more!!! in reply to JD, 07-27-2004 20:21:10  
Brass-tag, aluminum-tag or no tag, a tractor is only worth what the seller will take and the buyer will give. Any suppositions beyond that are wishful thinking. Sure, there are general value "guidelines" that are widely accepted, but that's about as far as it goes.



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Jon C - florida

07-28-2004 04:19:33




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 Re: Brass tags NOT worth more!!! in reply to JD, 07-27-2004 20:21:10  
You are correct - based on production numbers the 35 B is not the "rarest". The reality is that the B is a common tractor.

But value is determined by perception in the market....and "the market" has determined that they will pay a premium for a "brass tag".

Through the magic of marketing, perfume, diamonds and womens clothes fetch far more than the "value" (based on rarety) of each.



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JD-Tractor

07-28-2004 10:09:35




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 Re: Re: Brass tags NOT worth more!!! in reply to Jon C - florida, 07-28-2004 04:19:33  
perception is everything and if people perceive that the brass tags are more valuable then who are we to say otherwise. If there is a desire thus a demand for the brass tags then they should be more valuable as it is a matter of supply and demand.



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Jon C- florida

07-28-2004 17:16:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Brass tags NOT worth more!!! in reply to JD-Tractor, 07-28-2004 10:09:35  
You got it JD-Tractor! If the perception of the market is that only tractors with broken right axles are valuable, for whatever the reason, then that is what will be in demand until the market is satuated with broken right axled tractors. (In the 1600's tulip bulbs were driven into a frenzy, driving prices up till the bubble burst when people realized that they were only flower bulbs.)

Of course like coins, "rarety" also counts because the market understands production numbers too. For example, I think the JD 330 is ugly, (and I have one), but not too many were made....and the market thinks for that reason they are valuable, even if it is an ugly little useless tractor.

The market opinion rules, not the individual!

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Mike (WA)

07-28-2004 18:08:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Brass tags NOT worth more!!! in reply to Jon C- florida, 07-28-2004 17:16:59  
A favorite example in the car world is 40's vintage Dodge and Plymouth convertibles- very rare, but nobody cares- hence, they aren't worth much. It's all supply and demand. If rarity were the only criterion, why are Cockshutt Golden Arrows (135 built, value about $10,000 with a tail wind) worth so much less than MM UDLX's (150 built, value $80,000 plus)?



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Matt

07-29-2004 06:56:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brass tags NOT worth more!!! in reply to Mike (WA), 07-28-2004 18:08:21  
My understanding is that JD used whatever material they had hanging around for tags not that brass was used for the first model year, or that brass was special in any way, etc. For example they used steel during the war years as the other metals were rationed. What gives a JD tag it's value is that it tells you that your Unstyled A High-Crop is an Unstyled A High Crop, brass, steel, aluminum or kryptonite.

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