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Allan in Ne

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Redmud

10-07-2004 20:11:54




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Allan, I was 16 in 1955, my older brother was a mechanic at the dealer ship. not all the 265's had a problem but that dealer got way more than one dealer should have. I would visit with the guys in the shop and one of the mechanics was dumping Bon Ami in the carb of a 55 two door hardtop. he had it at about half throttle. I ask my brother why the guy was dumping that crap in the engine, he said the he was fixing it. later on my brother handed me a note that someone in the office there gave him, it said bon-ami {not sure of spelling}would fix the oil burning problem. Redmud:

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Britt

10-09-2004 09:31:39




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 Re: Allan in Ne in reply to Redmud, 10-07-2004 20:11:54  
Caterpillar used to recommend BonAmi to seat problem rings in their diesel engines in the 40's thru the 60's. It is even mentioned in some of thier overhaul manuals. I remember seeing it in the manual for a D13000 engine that was used in the early D-8 Cats.
If I remember correctly the BonAmi trademark was a freshly hatched chick standing by it's shell, with the words "Hasn't Scratched Yet" underneath.
I always thought that putting any kind of abrasive in an engine, mild or not, was a short term "fix" that would bite you later. Probably get through the warranty period, (if any).
But it was a common "fix" used in the "Good Old Days."
I wouldn't recommend it, then or now.

Britt

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Jack Dempsey

10-08-2004 10:24:11




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 Re: Allan in Ne in reply to Redmud, 10-07-2004 20:11:54  
Engine smoking? Try Nicoderm patches.



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Larry806

10-08-2004 07:12:24




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 Re: Allan in Ne in reply to Redmud, 10-07-2004 20:11:54  
I had a JD B last year that wouldn't seat the rings. Block was bored & new pistions & rings. The guy that bought it plowed several days with it. It would clear up when working but started smoking blue with in a couple hours of ideling around. He got some Bon Ami and used it cleared it right up It has not smoked again



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Coloken

10-08-2004 06:04:22




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 Re: Allan in Ne in reply to Redmud, 10-07-2004 20:11:54  
Yea, the Bon Ami thing. I was shown by both a Case and an auto mechanic with the following. Only use as a last resort for glazed rings/cyl. that did not seat. If it happen, you will know it real fast. Very little, Case man would pour the amount on top of his thumb and let it be sucked in. Auto mec. used a salt shaker. Rings made now seem to break in with out the problem. At one time, we broke in with non-detergent oil. Course some of those "old stock" might need some care to get sealed. I've never had it happen, but I have all ways used a glaze breaker and ruffed up the cylinder bore.

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Redmud

10-08-2004 05:44:40




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 Re: Allan in Ne in reply to Redmud, 10-07-2004 20:11:54  
I used the Bon-ami trick back in the 70's myself, only did it that one time and it worked. I don't remember if it was Bon-ami or Ajaxs but it worked like a champ. did it on a red seal continental that was a machine shop rebuild. Redmud:



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Allan in NE

10-08-2004 03:59:20




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 Re: Allan in Ne in reply to Redmud, 10-07-2004 20:11:54  
Hi Redmud,

Yes, I've seen a lot of those old mechanics do that; like Mark said, they were trying to seat an oil burner by abnormally "wearing" the rings and cylinders. Sure don't know if I could ever do that, but maybe it worked???? Dunno.

One thing those old guys taught me, that I immediately got in the habit of doing, is that you don't have to pull the intake manifold and all that associated paraphernalia to pull a head; she'll come right down outta there while leaving everything else in place.

And also on a rebuild, by keeping your wits about you and counting turns & always mindful of camshaft position, you don't have to adjust those hydraulic lifters while the engine is running.

Likewise, you don’t have to pull the hood to swap engines; they will come outta there without all that extra work.

Another one is pulling the engine instead of the drive train to swap a clutch on a 4x4; it’s so much faster.

Old iron, aint it great? Glad I don’t HAVE to do it anymore, though. :>)

Allan

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txblu

10-08-2004 06:02:31




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 Re: Allan in Ne in reply to Allan in NE, 10-08-2004 03:59:20  
Tell me about the v8's slobbering oil all over enerything while you're trying to set the lifter preload. Had everything nice and clean and fresh paint and shiny and Yuk!

Never had guts enough to set the preload by counting turns. Never knew if the lifter was prefilled to the right level or not and didn't want to burn a valve due to too much preload.

Great sport..... ...yeah right!

Mark



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Lil-Farmer

10-08-2004 07:03:44




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 Re: Allan in Ne in reply to txblu, 10-08-2004 06:02:31  
If you know the firing order you can adjust valves with the lifter on the base circle center of the cam without counting turns.

Chevy V-8 18436572

Make a chart using the first 4 in the firing order above and the last four below:

1843
6572

Watch the exhaust valve on #1, when it closes and the intake just starts to open, adjust the valves on #6, watch #8, adjust #5, etc. Works on solid lifters also for setting cold clearance before starting. Two revolutions of the crank and you are done.

Works on any engine with an even number of cylinders, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, etc. Don"t know what to do on 3"s, and 5"s.

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Allan in NE

10-08-2004 06:40:07




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 Re: Allan in Ne in reply to txblu, 10-08-2004 06:02:31  
Hi Mark,

During the rebuild, the lifter doesn't even have to have any oil in it at all; this will work on a set of brand new lifters as well ('course, I can't imagine re-using a used lifter).

First, make absolutely sure that the cam is rotated away from it's throw so that the lifter is "away" from any lift at all.

Then, if you will notice, the lifter has a somewhat "weak" little spring inside it's bore which holds that check valve in place. This little weak spring will push up against the push rod with a somewhat 'weak' pressure.

So, what you do, is to go around all 16 rockers and bring them down to "JUST 0 LASH AGAINST THAT LITTLE SPRING" while rotating the engine as necessary to get that camshaft in the right position for each lifter. (Actually, you can adjust 3 or 4 rockers at a pop before you have to rotate the engine.)

Then, once you are totally convinced and absolutely sure that all are at set at 0 lash (against that little spring), very carefully (and without loosing count) go around all 16 rockers and bring them all down 'exactly' one more turn.

At that point, you can put the gaskets on the covers and install; paint the dude and forget it, 'cause those valves are set. Promise.

Ignition timing can be done in somewhat the same manner, but this is another whole chapter.

Allan

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rustyfarmall

10-08-2004 04:58:49




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 Re: Allan in Ne in reply to Allan in NE, 10-08-2004 03:59:20  
Actually the bon-ami trick was still being used much later than the 50s. I worked for a JD dealer in the 70s, had one customer who had purchased a new 4020, and after using it long enough that it should have been broke in, he was still experiencing an oil consumption problem. The factory rep came and took a look at this tractor and determined that the tractor had never been worked hard enough to really seat the rings in. The cure was to remove the intake manifold, start the engine, and put about 1/8 teaspoon of an abrasive powder into each intake port, allowing the running engine to draw the powder in. This product was in a John Deere labled container, with a JD part number, and the parts department had it on the shelf. Apparently the process worked , at least good enough that the powder was kept in stock.

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Indydirtfarmer

10-08-2004 05:04:48




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 Magic dust in reply to rustyfarmall, 10-08-2004 04:58:49  
I've been told by a "reputable" John Deere (Dealership) mechanic that the Deere labeled "Break-in powder" was nothing more tha Ajax scouring powder....John



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rustyfarmall

10-08-2004 06:05:02




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 Re: Magic dust in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 10-08-2004 05:04:48  
Yes, we kind of suspected that.



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Willy-N

10-07-2004 20:25:13




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 Re: Allan in Ne in reply to Redmud, 10-07-2004 20:11:54  
Re Seating the rings but sure hard on the bore! Mark H.



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