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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

foundered feeder steer

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Doug Rogers

12-30-2004 15:44:28




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After consulting with you guys and a couple of local opinions from neighbors with experience, (they looked at him) I have come to the conclusion that my steer referenced in below post has foundered. This is one of two steers that I was feeding out for slaughter. He will get up and eat occasionally but is losing weight. What are my options or are there any besides butchering now?




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TomTX

12-31-2004 05:46:17




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 Re: foundered feeder steer in reply to Doug Rogers, 12-30-2004 15:44:28  
Take him to a vet. You don't want to butcher without knowing what disease he may have. Option is to sell him at local auction and buy replacement.



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Nebraska Cowman

12-30-2004 18:43:30




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 Re: foundered feeder steer in reply to Doug Rogers, 12-30-2004 15:44:28  
knock him in the head and feed the dogs. if he ain't top shape why would you want to eat him?



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JMS/MN

12-30-2004 17:14:29




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 Re: foundered feeder steer in reply to Doug Rogers, 12-30-2004 15:44:28  
Either trust the opinion of your neighbors or get a vet's diagnosis of foundering. If it is indeed foundering, and big enough to butcher- do it. If it makes a recovery, it is likely to founder again before reaching market weight. My experience- had 2-3 founder from a couple decades of raising dairy steers from 70 cow herd. Keep feeding it, watch it die- how many bucks do you lose? One vet visit will determine if it's pneumonia or ? Spend 50 bucks for an accurate diagnosis, and go from there. Foundering? Butcher it if big enough- then at least you have the meat.

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kyhayman

12-30-2004 17:14:02




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 Re: foundered feeder steer in reply to Doug Rogers, 12-30-2004 15:44:28  
Often times recovery from founder is possible. Need to get him back on feed. Put him on a high fiber diet of highly palitable hay, maybe suppliment with some soy hulls or seed cotton seed. There are some good pelleted feeds which are high in fiber. Probably need to feed a probiotic to get his rumen function back up to snuff.

I'd look long and hard at the ration if you plan on using a creep feeder. Too many people want to pump shelled corn, soybean meal, and molasses in a creep feeder and not buffer it (I used 10% sodium bicarbonate and 10% feed grade ground limestone, when I was feeding this to milk cows). I've never had one founder in 19 years of feeding and used a creep feeder up until 4 years ago. Ear corn and distillers dried grain makes a good mix, soybean hulls straight did well, shelled corn with ground alfalfa hay have all worked well for me.

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JMSMN

12-30-2004 17:19:23




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 Re: foundered feeder steer in reply to kyhayman, 12-30-2004 17:14:02  
I agree- if you want to keep feeding him- the only way is with a high fiber diet, since bovines are made for fiber vs. grain diets. On dairy steers I used a shelled corn/protein pellet diet, and foundering is the downside of this method. With my setup, I didn't have the option of pulling one out and babying him. They didn't founder below 900 lbs, so butchering was the option.



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paul

12-30-2004 17:17:29




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 Re: foundered feeder steer in reply to kyhayman, 12-30-2004 17:14:02  
I'm looking to go that way in a year, self feeder on some cattle.

I have available to me ear corn, shell corn, oats, grass & alfalfa hay.

I would think giving them a little fiber in alfalfa or grass would be a good thing, and a mix with some oats in it, or get the fiber from the ear corn mix?

--->Paul



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kyhayman

12-30-2004 17:32:51




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 Re: foundered feeder steer in reply to paul, 12-30-2004 17:17:29  
If it was me (and I was grinding my own), I'd mix ear corn, oats, and alfalfa hay at about 40-40-20
1 each depending on the protein test of the alfalfa if it will feed through the feeder.



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paul

12-30-2004 21:08:38




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 Re: foundered feeder steer in reply to kyhayman, 12-30-2004 17:32:51  
A good simple starting point, to tinker with of course. I need to look through the nutritional references I have & do the balance myself. Most of my work has been the cows & young so far, not good at finishing. Thanks. :)

--->Paul



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kyhayman

12-31-2004 05:52:36




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 Re: foundered feeder steer in reply to paul, 12-30-2004 21:08:38  
Main variable is going to be the protein content of the alfalfa. Really impossible to balance completely until you know that from a forage test. Some years I had to throw a little soybean meal or distillers dried grain in to make up for marginal alfalfa.

I've also used shelled corn/oats/alfalfa on a 1/3-1/3-1/3. (I buy shelled corn and oats to mix whole on site for the horses).

I've thought, if I went back to creep feeders, of using corn gluten pellets 60/40 with alfalfa. Probably wont though, I never pushed mine real hard 2-1/2-3 # a day as a goal. Been getting better than 2 the past 2 years on round baled silage of red clover and orchardgrass cut 1st of May. Planned on using the corn gluten pellets with it but had to stop, geting them too fat.

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thurlow

12-31-2004 07:04:14




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 Re: foundered feeder steer in reply to kyhayman, 12-31-2004 05:52:36  
Not an option..... .I suppose..... ..for paul, maybe not for the hayman, because of location/trucking expense; best/cheapest ration I ever fed was cracked, shelled corn/whole cottonseed. Obviously it depends on what your corn is worth and what the cottonseed costs, but for many years we would double our money on the cost of the feed..... also fed free choice grass low/medium quality hay. This was without charging anything to labor/management; had to pay the employees anyway and figured my time was basically worthless..... ....this was on 4-6 weight calves looking for 2 1/2--3 lbs gain per day. Never fed this in self-feeders; always hand fed; 2 people could feed a couple of hundred head in about 15 minutes..... .

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