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o/t-first oil change

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larryinwa

01-02-2005 14:12:48

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read the boards all the time but don't post often,but seems like no matter the question there is always someone that has an answer.anyway,just bought a new honda element-manual says oil changes every 10,ooo miles which i would never do,have always changed every 3,000,but manual says as part of breakin do not change until first 10,000-do they use a special breakin oil in new cars-just can't imagine going that long till first change. thanks for any comments.

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James2

01-03-2005 18:52:24

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

I work for a major engine manufacturer, and I know how difficult it is to remove or keep all the debris/chips/casting sand, etc out of an engine during buildup. No way would I go for 10.000 miles before the first oil change if I intended to keep the car for a long time; eg 150,000 miles. I also find it difficult to believe it will take 10,000 miles to seat the rings even if it is only driven in the winter and for short trips.

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LUCASS

01-03-2005 05:58:15

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

YOU KNOW WHAT??...SOMETHING JUST HIT ME..MOST OF US CANT DIAGNOSE PROBLEMS WITH NEW CARS ,,, BUT WE THINK WE KNOW MORE THAN THE MAKER WHEN IT COMES TO SERVICE INTERVALLS... LUCAS

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MarkB_MI

01-03-2005 03:19:49

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

I don't know if Honda uses a break-in oil, but it is possible. The dealer should know if that's the case. Break-in oil is usually a non-detergent oil, which helps to burnish the cylinder walls. VW used to use a break-in oil in the Beetle, and air-cooled aircraft engines are typically broken in with non-detergent oil. Most modern automobile engines have essentially no break-in period because of the manufacturing processes used today. Most, if not all, cars today come from the factory with standard, detergent oil.

Note that it is not uncommon to have oil change intervals of over 10K miles. Engines are much cleaner than 30 years ago. I'd follow the factory oil change interval, but switch to Mobil 1 synthetic at the first oil change.

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Teddy (punchie)

01-03-2005 02:59:06

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

I would add look at the oil, some engines run cleaner than others. I have a older chevy 305 on a heavy 1/2 ton, does a fair amout of start and go to barn and maybe haul wood or hay. But in winter I change if I use it that much about 2000-3000 miles or sooner. She gets 17 mile to gallon( o a haul or to work) and runs fair for that type and size engine, oil pressure could be better!! but we are up to 160,000 mark for an 1983 305 , so I look and change. Should have the carb looked at but at 17/MPG I hate to mess with anything, choke loads up bad if cold out. Allot of gas in oils, I feel at 2.00 a gallon for gas and most engines in that age area get 8-10 if there lucky, that an oil change do to too much gas in oil pays for it self in no time. Sure is a pain if she floods out, have to clean plugs and replace. Old trucks are like old tractors all have there funny ways about them.

Teddy

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T_Bone

01-03-2005 01:10:49

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

Hi Larry,

I bought a new Chevy 2000 4cyl gasser and change the oil once per year usually around 6k miles, once at 7.5k and once at 6.5k. Mileage is not so important to me as once per year change.

I now have 36k miles on and expect 150k miles from the car. I usually get 250k miles from my cars but this one is a cheap throw away model when I'm done.

What I have noticed is I've used Penzoil and QuakerState for the past 40yrs and both of those oil have failed me in the past 5yrs. My first 6k mile change with QuakerState and Fram was extreamly black with a strong odor of gas.

I switched over too Chevron Supreme/OEM filters and my oil now looks like the factory oil upon first change, dark amber with a lite gas odor at 6k mile changes.

A side benefit to the CS oil was I picked up 4mpg oveall, 2mpg the first change and another 2mpg there after. Fluke? Nope my son tried CS in his Ranger and got 2mpg overall increase.

I also found brand of gas makes a huge difference in fuel mileage. Texaco gets 4mpg less, Mobil 2mg less, Arco 2mpg less, when compared to Union 76 fuel (Circle K). I think Circle K has switched to Phillips 66 as they don't support the Union 76 signage any longer but other "K's" have the "66" signs, in any event my mileage stayed the same.

T_Bone

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leland

01-03-2005 14:47:39

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to T_Bone, 01-03-2005 01:10:49

T bone where can you find this chervon at .the only thing around here is 15-40 truck oil

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T_Bone

01-03-2005 16:39:49

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to leland, 01-03-2005 14:47:39

Hi leland,

Wal-mart, Autozone, Checker Auto, PepBoys. etc:

Keep it mind it's SL rated (gasser)
Not CI rated (diesel)

Checker Auto just had a sale on CS, $.99/qt

T_Bone

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leland

01-03-2005 20:30:22

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to T_Bone, 01-03-2005 16:39:49

none of those places stock it here just 15-40 truck oil the , if I can find it I will try it I am not loyal to any oil for a gaser it seems to all be able to get a motor to 180-200,000 miles but if it boosts mpg I will give it a shot.

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Ken S.

01-02-2005 19:36:09

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

We have a 03 KIA Rio and the oil change is 7-8K with regular oil for normal service. I use synthetic and dump it every 25-16K.

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lucass

01-02-2005 18:43:11

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

honda just uses regular oil in the new car engines.. the thing is, low tension piston rings and finer cylinder honing doesnt cause the metal pull down off the cylinders like it used to.blocks are cleaned better before assembly.by-combustion products dont get into the oil because tolerances are closer,computer controlled fuell supply to engine prevents overfueling and gas getting into the oil...i think belief in oil change time is like religion and you cant really change peoples minds , but one thing i think we all have to agree on is todays new car engines are built tighter,leak less ,last longer,get better mileage and run better for their size than engines of the past.now a car with 100,000 miles is considered to have alot of life left ,remember years ago cars with 100,000 miles were considered worn out..... i do alot of cylinder boring and let me tell you things have changed.piston rings have alot less tension,have alot less friction and require a very fine surface finish compare to just 10 years ago,so less metal is pulled off on initial startup and rings seat in in a few minutes if not instantly.our small trucks on the highway get 12,000 mile oil changes and our short run trucks get 5,000-6,000 mile oil changes and most all of em run past the 200,000 mile mark.. lucass

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JHILL

01-02-2005 19:13:01

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to lucass, 01-02-2005 18:43:11

I agree with Lucas. Modern engines are better and changing oil at 3000 miles is a waste of money. I have change the oil on my last 4 trucks at 7000 miles and have never had a problem and I ran these truck 180,000 or more before I traded.

I also believe Honda knows what they are talking about. They really know how to make engines.

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buickanddeere

01-02-2005 18:42:46

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

I most of Europe oil changes made at less than 10,000KM/6,200 miles raise eyebrows. Either you have money to waste for the labour, purchase and disposal. Or you are aunt Mildred who drives 2 miles to bingo, 2 miles for shopping, 2 miles to the Dr's and 1 mile to church. Thus putting on a whole 7 miles per week and eight cold/cool start cycles. Anyone care to guess how much of these 1500,2000 & 3000 mile oil changes gets dumped in a ditch or down a storm sewer?

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Mike M

01-02-2005 18:34:54

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

I would double check with your dealer,this sounds like an interval for syntheic oil.

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Paul Shuler

01-02-2005 18:34:17

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

We bought a new CRV in 03 and it said the same thing. I have always done my own oil but had just had back surgery so I thought I would take it in. It had 5000 miles on it and they refused to change it. The manager said the break in oil must stay in at least 7500 miles. They said I could do what I wanted but the couldn't change it. I left it in till 7500 and it looked clean to the eye ball. Have had no problems of any kind with the little Honda.And my wife drives it like a bat out of H-ll. My father in law has a Chevy dura max diesle and it has some do dad that monitors the oil and tells you when to change it. I was with him Sat and he has close to 10,000 miles on the oil and the computer said it still was at 50 percent. Whatever that means.

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Leland

01-02-2005 17:52:47

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

The 3000 mile oil change is a waste of money, in europe most every car goes 10,000 miles per change. Try getting your oil tested at 3000 miles like I have they always say run it some more by doing this I can stretch oil to 7000 no problems. I used to drive for an airport shuttle service that ran ford E 150s with 302s and those vans would go 6-700,000 miles, with oil changes every 20-25000 boss was cheap but he proved a point at 3000 you are just wasting your money . He made a beliver out of me.

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Jerry/MT

01-02-2005 17:28:51

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

Follow the owners manual. They wouldn't put this requirement in there if it wasn't for a good reason. Remember they are warranteeing it!

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wdTom

01-02-2005 17:27:01

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

Break in oil?? I would change it MUCH sooner. When I rebuild an engine or buy a new one I change the oil after a few hours. All the metal that comes off the cylinder walls is in the oil. Hopefully it gets stuck in the oil filter. If you drain out the " break in" oil too sone the worst thing that I would think could happen is that it would take longer for it to finish "breaking in". I would never run oil 10,000 mi. 3,000, or maybe under the best of conditions 4000 would be my max.

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txblu

01-02-2005 17:22:20

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

If you don't trust your owner's manual, why don't you call the local Honda Dealership's Service Manager and ask him what his shop does about break-in. But as stated, then there is the warranty thing.

I'd think with Mr. Honda's reputation for transportation and equipment devices operated by internal combustion engines, he (his company) wouldn't steer you wrong. Now I can think of at least one (old time) domestic mfgr I can't say that about (well usta couldn't).

Mark

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Jon H

01-02-2005 16:55:54

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

If the op manual says 10,000 miles,I would run it 10,000. Anything less gives them reason to void your warrenty. This may be justified if it takes that long to correctly seat in your engine.
a few years ago JD had some oil consumption problems because owners were not leaving the breakin oil in long enough.(seems to me it was for the first two changes) If it makes you feel better,replace the oil filter with a factory filter and add enough genuine Honda oil to top it up. That way you get rid of any breakin/new engine trash,and yet you have done your duty under the warrenty.

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CLW

01-02-2005 16:52:11

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

I would go by what the manual says, at least on the first change. Be sure and check the oil and don't let it get low. May talk to the service dept. and see what they say but I would guess they have it there for a reason. What do they say on oil changes after the break-in period? My Ford truck says 7500 between changes but I change at 3000-4000. I don't worry if I go over a little bit. I think we probly change at 3000 becouse our Dad did or Oil change places say we should. It's one of those things that don't hurt to do more often, but we probly waste more money than we should by not following the directions in the manual. (My opinion only) Consumer Reports magazine did a huge test on motor oil about 8-10 years ago. They took apart taxi motors in New York and took readings, put them back together and ran them with different oils for diferent miles and took them down again. Was little or no different in wear between any of the major oils and they said 6000 mile changes worked as well as 3000.
CLW
CLW

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txblu

01-02-2005 17:17:29

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to CLW, 01-02-2005 16:52:11

Man you hit on the biggest scam in the world. The 3000 mile oil change was a good idea back in the days of low detergent (was HD at the time) oil and leaded gas.

When unleaded gas came along, oil didn't get dirty like it used to but the oil companies didn't bother telling you about it.

See, for all those well wishing folks that still do the 3000 rather than 6000 to 7500 (like Ford recommends under normal driving conditions) the oil companies DOUBLE their sales. Now with all the billion barrels of oil mined daily and a percentage of that being engine lube, you think that they are going to look that gift horse in the mouth?

Not in our lifetime.
----- ----- ----- -----

Bought a Chey Nova 2 door, used. Don't remember the year but it was back when they built Nova's with straight 6 engines, or if you got the V8, you had to jack up the engine to change the last 2 spark plugs.

Had what GM called an "integrated head" where the intake manifold was cast as part of the head. It cracked and put antifreeze in the cylinder. Happened on the way to work one morning in stop and go freeway traffic. Scared the dung outta me as steam came up all around me...anyway limped back home.

Took it off and put on a conventional head with the normal in and out manifolds. The previous owner was a 3000 mile buff. When I removed the head and looked down into the cylinders I could still see the crosshatch pattern from honing the cylinder walls when the engine was built.

The car had over 150k miles on it..... .I have better things to do with my money.

My 2c

Mark

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Duner Wi

01-02-2005 16:32:40

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

If it were mine I would go to Honda and purchase some of this "break in oil". I would think they would package it for sale.

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Griff Ont.

01-02-2005 14:24:31

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to larryinwa, 01-02-2005 14:12:48

That seems fairly odd, 10,000? I've never really heard of this "breakin oil" so I cant be too sure. Maybe you should change at about 6,000. That way, you wont really hurt your motor, and you'll give the breakin oil a better chance to do its thing, what ever it may be.

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steveormary

01-02-2005 18:47:30

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to Griff Ont., 01-02-2005 14:24:31

Not where I can check car mileage or manual. On wifes 03 Camry we have had oil changed at 3500 miles. I can tell the engine runs smoother after the change.

We have access to 3 grades of gasoline. Car seems to run better on the middle grade. What grade do you all use.

steveormary

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dr.sportster

01-03-2005 08:58:30

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to steveormary, 01-02-2005 18:47:30

Two comments;7 December 1941 and it probably uses rice not oil.

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steveormary

01-03-2005 22:46:08

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Re: o/t-first oil change in reply to dr.sportster, 01-03-2005 08:58:30

We are in a world economy. Where do parts come from for cars,trucks and tractors that are assembled in the US. Did we get a good car? Wont know for a few years yet. Always had cars built in the US with mostly US parts I think. Last one was built in Chicago. We drive them till they drop.

Enuf

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