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OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River

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Lou

08-14-2005 10:26:17




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3 million gal of liquified manure gets into river causing fish kill and economic loss, Is it necessary to store 3 million gallon? Whos at fault who should pay? Lou




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tlak

08-15-2005 11:08:14




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Lou, 08-14-2005 10:26:17  
I think the FEDs are passing some of their responsibilities down to state level with these budget cuts. In doing this I think things are policed by which ever way the political wind blows.



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Pat Harmet

08-15-2005 05:45:20




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Lou, 08-14-2005 10:26:17  
There are a couple of ways to look at this. First, why would such a large facility be located anywhere near water? This same sort of thing happened in north carolina with a hog lagoon - I have hog buildings, but there's no water running for at least a mile - the Illinois epa and doa would not have any other way. Second, accidents do happen and large dairies are not all bad. there is is one south of me that has worked out good contracts with local farmers for silage and manure application, it's in the middle of nowhere and it smells like cows if you can get close enough.

It sounds like this dairy is going to have to make some large changes to keep going (possibly relocated manure storage away from water with added damming to control spills - on their own dime). We've all seen being large/powerful has it's advantages; however, once the situation gets politically messy, the support tends to dry up (no Senator wants to be on 60 minutes explaining his/her support for manure spills)

They will get their act together - there is just too much political force against them.

my 2 cents, Pat

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Tim Shultz

08-14-2005 17:14:50




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Lou, 08-14-2005 10:26:17  
well.... Sh*T happens.....



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mike brown

08-14-2005 17:07:01




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Lou, 08-14-2005 10:26:17  
Here in NY the mega dairies get away with murder. Some have five or six thousand cows. They have barracks of Guatemalans to do the milking because locals won't do it 'round the clock for peanuts and one day off every two weeks. They spray manure from huge fountains and the smell sickens people down wind. Calls to the health dept. gets only shrugs. They belong to an organization called Pro Dairy that makes big political contributions. They have people on staff who write grant proposals and reel in big bucks from the govt. (you and me).
The dairy involved in this spill will likly not be fined but will get a million dollar grant to install a state of the art manure handling system. That is what has been happening in the finger lakes area when there is a big spill. Could have been allowed to happen so they would get a grant.

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olivergreen

08-14-2005 17:06:41




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Lou, 08-14-2005 10:26:17  
The big & rich get hand slapped. The poor & little get hung.



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marlowe

08-14-2005 16:17:30




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Lou, 08-14-2005 10:26:17  
in WI. they get big fines and have to pay the bill for clean up and even have to pay for the fish and any other bills even spring run off is watched real close



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MSM

08-14-2005 16:06:32




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Lou, 08-14-2005 10:26:17  
Probably no one will pay if it was deemed an accident. Same as around me.City of Baltimore spilled 3-5 million gallons of raw sewage into the harbor,(2nd or third time this year)which drains into the Chesapeake bay. Another couple of municipalities have had numerous sewage spills this year into rivers and streams.No fines, no EPA inquiry.But all the polution problems with the bay are due to the farmers according to the EPA.

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720Deere

08-14-2005 18:38:59




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to MSM, 08-14-2005 16:06:32  
Don't believe that the EPA does not have a say in the spills of Baltimore. They are currently forcing the city to spend around $1 billion for sewage system upgrades. This all takes time and won't be completed until sometime in 2009, but every project has a mandatory completion date and the EPA fines the city big time for every day beyond that.

As for the spills that you speak of, that's just what the media gets wind of. To my knowledge, there are over a dozen places along the Jones Falls up to the pump station at Ash Street where they have "emergency" sewage overflows dumping into the river. This occurs basically every time that it rains. The City of Baltimore has many common sewers still in service that carry storm drainage along with sanitary sewer. This is what causes the "spills". The other side of that coin is that since these peak flows are mostly storm runoff, the actual amount of harmful sewage is very low in concentration even before it is combined with the emense flow of the river during storm conditions. Nonetheless, I wouldn't want to swim in it.

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Rod in Smiths Falls, ON,

08-14-2005 16:00:15




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Lou, 08-14-2005 10:26:17  
The mayor of Kingston is reported by a local paper to be up in arms about it. Polluting a Canadian city's water supply can't be a good thing.



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buickanddeere

08-15-2005 05:48:40




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 filtered water Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, , 08-14-2005 16:00:15  
Kingston must high quality water being from the last of five Great Lakes. It's been filtered through how many kidneys?



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Enough to Make One Puke

08-14-2005 14:45:43




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Lou, 08-14-2005 10:26:17  
The dairy farmers in Erath county, Texas, were relatively immune from having to meet any enviornmental standards until the city of Waco went to court and was able to fine them into compliance.
What I have never been able to understand is how the PRIVATELY owned cattle feeders are able to use their own money to come into compliance, but the SUBSIDIZED dairy industry has to be dragged kicking and screaming into meeting even the most basic enviornmental quality standards.

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JWhite

08-15-2005 14:09:02




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Enough to Make One Puke, 08-14-2005 14:45:43  
The problem with the Waco suit was that Waco was dumb enough to believe that their drinking water was tasting bad because of the Erath Dairies. Everyone wants to pick on the dairies about dairy waste then cry about the milk prices being so high. Some dairies have to truck their manure away from the area because they have to do something with it. Sometimes the recievers of the manure are not ready for it and it must be stored somewhere.

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Larry806

08-14-2005 11:32:07




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Lou, 08-14-2005 10:26:17  
If its anything like Ohio no one will pay . We have Dutch dairies & German owned chicken factories ( layers) When there caught polluting they are given a fine and told if they spend the money to improve their facility they don't have to pay the EPA So now they can build the manure tank bigger with the money Guess what happens next time a bigger spill. Most of the time the EPA is called they don't show up till after the next rain to wash it away

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Lou

08-14-2005 12:57:19




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Larry806, 08-14-2005 11:32:07  
This spill has been all over the news in upstate NY dead fish floting everwhere,( walleye and northern pike ) float trips canceled, people losing $$$.



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SMA in NE

08-14-2005 13:26:53




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to Lou, 08-14-2005 12:57:19  
We had a guy in Nebraska purposely draining his hog lagoon into a small creek nearby. They made him stop but that was about it. Should be some major financial penalties when it is purposeful but it doesn't seem to happen.



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rambler

08-14-2005 23:44:05




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 Re: OT 3 million gal spill polutes Black River in reply to SMA in NE , 08-14-2005 13:26:53  
Fellow here in Minnesota had his hog pit 1/10 full, got a horrid heavy rain, like 11 inches. Made his pit run over into the creek, MDNR & MN EPA fined him pretty bad, the spill was big enough in total gallons to click him up into a bigger badder fine. But only 1/10 th of it was really hog manure, 90% was rainfall. Seemed like a harsh deal to me for what the situation was. Think it put him out of business, if my memory serves.

Sometimes they work things out with the fellows as has been said. I agree anyone really pumping it into a waterway should have the book thrown at him.

That happened somewhere in the state too - fellow was storing his dripping pump & pipe when the inspectors showed up, he was trying to say it was an accident - nothing looked broke, the tube track went straight to the creek.... He was intially fined, I hope that one stuck & no deals, never did hear more on that one.

--->Paul

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