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Time to put things into the proper perspective.

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txgrn

08-30-2005 15:39:04

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I am backing off my life long assertions that thicker is better. I always wanted to see oil pressure and if I didn't get it, I'd up the antie with higher viscosity.

I just bought a Dodge 1500 pu with a newly designed 4.7 cu in V8. OEM recommended oil for all driving situations is a palsy 5w-30. That's puke oil..... well taint so any more.

I invite you to brouse www.allpar.com/mopar/47.html (not affiliated with mopar) where they do a super job of telling you just what's in this new engine design from the 40 year old designs that were it's predecessor.

Specific mention is made of tolerances of like .000015 inches (ok maybe it's only .00015 but so what....that's mighty tight) and oil pump passages specifically designed for the recommended 5w-30 recommended oil.

So if it's old iron so be it. It gets the viscosity. But on my new mills I'm gonna break with tradition and do what the mfgr says..... ..who knows, he may be more interested in your satisfaction (and future sales) than he is in just meeting EPA standards.

Mark

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Tim...Ok

08-31-2005 12:52:10

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-30-2005 15:39:04

mark, Just don"t try to pull anything with that 4.7 my wifes got a quadcab with the 4.7 5-speed.. it"s all it wants on the hiway pulling an empty 12 foot utility trailer.. pretty gutless

Tim

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Leland

08-30-2005 22:07:29

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-30-2005 15:39:04

Also using a heavier oil than recommended will cause the bearings to fail sonner also bacause of the size of the molacules 5w30 will slip right thru but 10w40 will leave the bearing under lubed due to larger size .and when the 5w20 came out I really doubted it but guy next door has 230,000 on a ford van and he used this watered down oil the whole way.

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txgrn

08-31-2005 05:55:24

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to Leland, 08-30-2005 22:07:29

That's a good description.....watered down. But times have changed and I need to change right along with them.

What convinced me was about what you said. When they started talking about those teeny clearances I realized that I needed teeny oil molecules to keep the metal off the metal. Also is a good point to insure if not 100 syn, then at least some syn. By using syn I won't worry about heat breakdown (with the thin oil) as the syn will hold up to it for sure.

Mark

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doodelbug

08-30-2005 19:34:05

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-30-2005 15:39:04

hey mark, did you get a new or used? just wondering if you bought the one i traded in last week. deep moulton red , quadcab, 5 speed standard shift, fancy wheels????? ???? he, he , he. on the serious side , you going to the show in gainsville this weekend ? ill be there with a JD A and a to 20 furgeson.

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txgrn

08-31-2005 05:51:53

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to doodelbug, 08-30-2005 19:34:05

I normally don't go to shows, but that's pretty close. Where and when? Might go and look you up.

Mines the Quad cab SLT with the 4.7 and 5 sp auto, in white with the 20 inchers. I like all the windows going all the way down. Now I can drive down the road with my windows down and that wind doesn't hit me in the side of the face and neck.

Mark

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doodelbug

08-31-2005 07:31:15

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-31-2005 05:51:53

sounds like a pritty truck, wife just traded hers for a 3/4 ton quad cab with a cummins and 6 speed. she has a need to speed, lol. show is about 4 miles west of gainsville on 82 in lindsay. saturday and sunday 9 am till 5 or 6 pm.

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Mark - IN.

08-30-2005 18:32:44

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-30-2005 15:39:04

Mark, seems to me that I've heard that before, about the tolerances. Rebuilding the new aint like the rebuilding the old. And they seem to last a whole lot longer. Tuneups at 100K anymore. Don't be late on your schedules, will get scolded by the sign-in lady a the Dodge guy's place. Did that once on the '02 Cummins buy 1K. She scolded me Mark. And like it or not, while is under warranty let the Dodge guy do it all so is documented. Congratulations on the new truck.

By the way, my '79 scooter takes SAE 50 and still leaves drops in the driveway. Is supposed to mark it's territory though.

Mark

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Mark - IN.

08-30-2005 18:33:11

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-30-2005 15:39:04

By the way, my '79 scooter takes SAE 50 and still leaves drops in the driveway. Is supposed to mark it's territory though.

Mark

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txgrn

08-31-2005 05:44:07

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to Mark - IN., 08-30-2005 18:33:11

Thanks Mark.

The salesman showed me the maint book and said do as you said or keep my receipts if I do it. He said this was the last year for the 70,000 warranty. That plus paying $23,400 for a $31k truck told me that now is the time to buy even though I wasn't ready.

My '98 has only recently started having problems and they were mickey mouse; most sensor related. All chassis and power train components (and the AC) have gone maint free. Keeping the old one.

Mark

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txgrn

08-31-2005 05:48:00

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-31-2005 05:44:07

That $23,400 number included all the ttl, dealer add on's and other misc charges. With $400 cash down, the bottom line on the contract was $22,995.

I crawled under it yesterday, checking it out, and if you haven't been under a Dodge truck lately you need to have a look see. She ain't what she used to be. Very nice and well engineered for strength, but light weight. And the AC radiator is now sitting to the side (of the engines radiator) with an electric fan and that is really a stroke of brilliance. Whadda deal.

Mark

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Mark - IN.

08-31-2005 05:57:49

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-31-2005 05:48:00

Sounds like a great deal Mark. I kept my '96 too. Has about 260K on it and just keeps running and running. The '02 mostly stays in the barn.

Growing up had some neighbors/friends that had a '63 W200, black as midnight. Is still beautiful when I see Ol' Man Jack driving it. Figure the same with my '02. The '96 is still in good shape, and will run it into the ground.

Enjoy it Mark, don't get scolded. She WILL scold you too. LOL.

Mark

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kyhayman

08-30-2005 18:08:43

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-30-2005 15:39:04

I'm with you on this. My 91 Dakota called for 10w30, I got 'smart' and put 10w40 in it. Head gasket went shortly thereafter. Same on 'that woman that lives here' 's car (95 GM quad 4). Now I do as they say not as I think I should (well most of the time).

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txgrn

08-31-2005 05:40:06

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to kyhayman, 08-30-2005 18:08:43

Sometimes we have to give in even it if hurts. Grin.

Mark

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RB/CT

08-30-2005 17:43:52

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-30-2005 15:39:04

Put the recommended 5w-30 in my 98 F=150 4.2 v6 engine, and changed the oil every 2k. At 80k, the Crankshaft went, hitting the thrust bearing. Sold it instead of repairing it. My daughters 2000 Cavalier was in on a recall, at a Chevrloet Dealership that is highly rated (97 years in business), I had them do the oil and they put 10-30w in it even though it is supposed to use 5w30. I questioned them on this and they said they always use 10-30w. Who knows. I think engine longevity is related to metallury and engineering, and the engineered life span.

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txgrn

08-31-2005 05:39:05

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to RB/CT, 08-30-2005 17:43:52

Read some bad news the other day on the 4.2 Ford 6. Get on the web if interested. It's out there.

Mark

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08-30-2005 17:33:54

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-30-2005 15:39:04

have a 93 rock with the 350 in it. book said to use 5-30. always have and now with 150000 miles still does not use any oil. change every 2000. checked milage last week on a 300 mile trip/ 1/2 interstate / 1/2 2 lane -- got 19.8. i can live with that. when it was new checked it on a 400 mile interstae run and got 23.7. allways figured that chevy knew what to put in it.

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txgrn

08-31-2005 05:37:18

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to wh, 08-30-2005 17:33:54

I have been reluctant to follow the book cause I didn't know their motivation when writing it. Looking like they may be concerned about us after all..... .in addition to making money for themselves.....maybe they're after repeat business, even if they have to wait for it. Ha

Mark

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Larry in CO

08-30-2005 17:29:34

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-30-2005 15:39:04

Mark,
I was like you thinking thicker was better until I bought a 1990 GMC Sonoma and the recommended oil for it was 5W-30. I decided to go ahead and use what they recommended and over the next 215,000 miles, I was not disappointed. I had no problems with the 4.3L motor on that truck and I was sold on the lighter weight oil from then on. I have used it in my 7.4L Chevy for 85,000 miles with no problems so far and just bought a 1991 Chevy S10 with 130,000 miles on it and am using 5W-30 in it. Hopefully I'll have the same luck with this one too. Larry

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txgrn

08-31-2005 05:34:58

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to Larry in CO, 08-30-2005 17:29:34

Good news. Thanks,

Mark

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Coloken

08-30-2005 16:09:36

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-30-2005 15:39:04

They convinced me several years ago. My old Dakota has 110,000 miles on it, but on a 60 degree morning I can still tell it is draging until warmed up for a few miles. No way would I use thicker oil. Now my old Allis A with 5 and quarter bore was some thing else. Kennyp

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John T

08-30-2005 16:07:15

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-30-2005 15:39:04

Mark, you raise a good point with which I also have recently learned is true, despite my experience with old loose worn out engines and my use of 20 w 50 etc. These new engines tolerances and oil passage and return sizes and cold starts have me convinced to go with what oil the manufacturers recommend, at least for the first 150,000 miles.

After watching a documentary on like the History or Discovery or Science Channel (I forget which) Ive become convinced to use Synthetic oils (in my lower mile cars) and have even been using that Lucas Oil Stabilizer as it seems to make the oil cling better to parts so as to reduce cold start up friction. True it may cost me 30 instead of 15 to change my own oil, but I figure thats cheap maintenance.

I always been a John Wayne kinda guy and proclaimed "Real men dont read directions" lol but like you Im kinda changin my perspective in my advanced years.

Ol John T in Indiana

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txgrn

08-31-2005 05:23:36

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to John T, 08-30-2005 16:07:15

10.4 on that. I can't believe what I said, but it's true and I'm a gonna do it. Grin.

Mark

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Jon Hagen

08-30-2005 22:07:10

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to John T, 08-30-2005 16:07:15

John T, Don't be afraid to use good synthetic oil in even very loose,high mile/hour engines. It may get you a few more years out of an engine that is otherwise on it's last legs. My experience was with a little Nash 6 that had a bad main bearing rumble in an otherwise good running engine. Every parts guy would roll his eyes and mumble about the engine with the rubber crankshaft when I told them what model engine I had. The engine was obsolete with almost no parts avalible. I finally located a set of standard size main bearings,and thought them worth installing even though the crank badly needed regrinding and undersize bearings. I had little choice,as I could not find an undersize set of main bearings anywhere.I installed the new standard bearings and for the first few hundred miles with 10-40 mineral oil,all seemed well,then the bearing rumble started to come back. The worn crank was eating the new bearings. On the chance that it might help,I put Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic oil in this engine. The bearing noise actually quieted down a lot and never increased in the 30,000 miles I put on it over the next 10 years. I thought I would not be able to start this car in winter with the thick 15-50 synthetic oil,but found it started easier than it did with 10-40 mineral oil. In this case it stopped bearing wear inspite of the bad crankshaft. That is the beauty of true synthetic oil,they work so well in extreme conditions.

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txgrn

08-31-2005 05:33:18

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to Jon Hagen, 08-30-2005 22:07:10

We bought a little Rambler American in '64. Had a little 6 but only had like 3 main bearings; not the 7 like in the Ford 300 cu.

Anyway, after a lot of tlc the sucker started that crank rumble you speak of after some 60k miles. I was truly upset about that and said that I would never again buy a car with an engine with inadequate bearings.....haven't either.

Mark

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BobinKY

08-30-2005 16:34:58

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to John T, 08-30-2005 16:07:15

You might put an asterick on the recommendation to use synthetic oil in your car. It works great for the newer model cares that have silicone gasket material, but if your car has any cork or rubber gasket material, the synthetic oil will run right through it. I have a 57 Chevy Bel-Air that I like to tinker around with and I put the synthetic oil in. It dripped like crazy. I took the synthetic oil out and replaced with 30 weight and I have not had another leak. Along this same line. I used synthetic in my 98 Tahoe and it too leaked like all get out. I replaced it with the old reliable 30 weight and it stopped. Just my two cents.

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Ludwig

08-31-2005 09:38:15

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to BobinKY, 08-30-2005 16:34:58

Either you used a cheap Group III "synthetic" thats junk or you used old Mobil 1 from before they added the seal additives, or you got the worstest scam where somebody buys Mobil 1, swaps it with some cheapo oil and returns it to the store...

Real Group IV or V synthetics will not leak worse in most cases. I've got an '83 Mercedes with 244kmi on it and it didn't leak any worse with synthetic 5w40 than it did with conventional 15w40. In fact its starting to leak less.
My '96 Dodge Dakota was already leaking a quart in ~800 miles at 120kmi when I switched, now 50kmi later it leaks less than a quart in 3000 miles.

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txgrn

08-31-2005 05:25:46

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to BobinKY, 08-30-2005 16:34:58

Hear you on the leaking. What viscosity did you use. I use 15w-40 in my '97 with 75,000 miles, even though the owners manual said to use light oil....next change will probably do like they said.

Mark

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Ludwig

08-31-2005 09:39:59

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to txgrn, 08-31-2005 05:25:46

I knew a guy that put 15w40 in his wife's VW when they were first married and when the temp dropped below freezing that fall she started it up and scored the cylinders because there wasn't any oil in there. IIRC the manufacturer called for 5w30.

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Jon Hagen

08-30-2005 21:28:15

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to BobinKY, 08-30-2005 16:34:58

Sounds like you got ripped off with one of those wannabe diester base stock, phoney synthetic oils which will cause seal and gasket leaks.
If you use a good POA base stock synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Amsoil synthetic,you will have no seal or gasket problems. I run Mobil 1 with cork,cork/rubber combo,neoprene rubber and silicone gaskets/seals with no leakage problems.

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txgrn

08-31-2005 05:29:41

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Re: Time to put things into the proper perspective in reply to Jon Hagen, 08-30-2005 21:28:15

Mobil 1 is my brand of choice. I used to use PolyAlphaOlephin as a dielectric coolant in electronic equipment. Could withstand both temperature extremes and stay put. For cars they just added the necessary additives (I guess).

Mark

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