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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

15W40 in an old engine?

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Rod in Smiths F

09-25-2005 15:59:10




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I just bought a Massey Harris 30 with a recently rebuilt engine. The owner has kept 15W40 in it for the six years since he bought it, though the tractor has only been used for a few hours a year by the owner's wife to rake hay.

He claims it will blow a quart of oil from the back seal in about 8 hours of running, though it doesn't appear to burn any. Pressure starts at between 20 and 25 and by the end of the day is down to around 8, the wife tells me.

Should I replace the oil with regular 30 for summer and 10 in winter?

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buickanddeere

09-26-2005 00:39:23




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 Re: 15W40 in an old engine? in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, , 09-25-2005 15:59:10  
Measuring the crankcase level via the pressure gauge is an odd and dangerous activity. Any chance the crankcase is poorly vented and pressure is pushing the oil past the seal? Keep the 15W40. Shell Rotella is the best mineral oil.



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Rod in Smiths Falls, ON,

09-26-2005 06:18:05




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 Re: 15W40 in an old engine? in reply to buickanddeere, 09-26-2005 00:39:23  
And for the cold? I plan to use the tractor to muck around in the woods all winter.



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buickanddeere

09-26-2005 10:41:39




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 Re: 15W40 in an old engine? in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, , 09-26-2005 06:18:05  
15W40 is fine. If it's below 20F then 0W30 or 5W30 is better. Of course the mineral oils still don't flow and lubricate in sub zero temps like a synthetic of "equal weight" such as Amsoil or Mobil 1.



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Rod in Smiths Falls, ON,

09-27-2005 05:37:33




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 Re: 15W40 in an old engine? in reply to buickanddeere, 09-26-2005 10:41:39  
But what if the engine has not, in fact, been rebuilt, and it's full of sludge? Won't the detergent wreck it?

BTW: I ran it three hours home yesterday and the engine feels very strong. This model 1947/8 has a peculiar throttle, with three distinct levels: an idle, the running section, and another section "through the gate" where it really takes off. I assume that this is emergency power, because the whole tractor shakes and roars when I pull it into that setting. Needless to say after a couple of 1-second tries I left it alone until I hit the steep hill leading up to our driveway. A short burst of power plunked us into the driveway in 5th gear.

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txgrn

09-25-2005 17:56:39




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 Re: 15W40 in an old engine? in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, , 09-25-2005 15:59:10  
I have conflicting opinions as to the correct answer.

Higher viscosity oil would raise oil pressure which could put additional strain on the seal and cause increased loss.

Higher viscosity oil would be molecularly thicker with larger molecules which would tend to resist movement by the seal.

I haven't been able to tell any difference between straight 30 and the 15w-40 in use.

Oil's not that expensive.....try one and if it doesn't work try the other.

On 15w-40 I use it in all my tractors including a '50's TO-20 I gave to my son.

Mark

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Bob

09-25-2005 19:16:20




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 Re: 15W40 in an old engine? in reply to txgrn, 09-25-2005 17:56:39  
TX,

Generally, the engine oil pressure is NOT directly applied to the rear main seal.

Typically, there is an oil slinger on the crankshaft that throws any oil that flows out the back of the main bearing outward, into a large groove that is open to the crankcase, allowing the oil to freely return to the crankcase.

So, the "mechanical labyrinth seal" (the oil slinger) effectively separates the oil flow from the main bearing from the rear main seal, so increased oil pressure shouldn't be a factor in more leakage from the rear main seal.

Furthermore, thicker oil increases oil pressure because there is LESS flow of the higher viscosity oil through the bearings.

Therefore, with a given engine, with a certain oil clearance at the rear main bearing, increased viscosity = less flow through the bearing = less oil the slinger, and then the rear main seal have to deal with.

I suspect when the OH'd it, they did not get the rear seal in correctly, or didn't get the rear main cap or seal holder properly sealed to the engine.

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Rlach

09-25-2005 17:42:12




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 Re: 15W40 in an old engine? in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, , 09-25-2005 15:59:10  
From 1952 to 1975, we used 10W during fall, winter, spring, and 30 HD for summer, this was for a Ford 8N 1952;
For the last 30 years we have used good quality (John Deere, CIH, NH, CNH) 15W40 for tractors.
Below 50 °F, I recommend 10W30 or even 5W30 in winter (in Ontario);
Above 50 °F, I recommend 15W40; NB : the engine has never been overhauled and is around 5500 hours.
IMHO, the problem is the rear oil seal, not the oil. Oil pressure seems low for a rebuilt engine but what about the gauge accuracy, @ ? rpm ?
Rlach

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Rod in Smiths Falls, ON,

09-25-2005 19:48:09




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 Re: 15W40 in an old engine? in reply to Rlach, 09-25-2005 17:42:12  
The gauge only reads up to 25 lb. I think it's a Continental flat four, and it doesn't rev very high.

The overhauler replaced the generator with a Delco alternator, so it's a 12v system with lots of juice.

In my experience this type of engine starts very well in cold weather. I never plugged in the decrepit model I used thirty years ago, yet it would start reliably after sitting for weeks in even the coldest weather. #10 oil, of course.

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J. Schwiebert

09-25-2005 17:31:21




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 Re: 15W40 in an old engine? in reply to Rod in Smiths Falls, ON, , 09-25-2005 15:59:10  
First of all is the gauge accurate? What is the API rating of the 15W-40 oil? You do not normally use a compression ignition API classification in an F model Continental engine. How much are you going to use it in the winter? 10 is a rather light weight oil if you are going to use it much in the winter. A heavier weight oil an a dip stick heater might be a better solution? Is it still on a 6 volt starting system?

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paul

09-25-2005 18:49:45




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 Re: 15W40 in an old engine? in reply to J. Schwiebert, 09-25-2005 17:31:21  
10 was always 'normal' for here in winter in all machines. Here is Minnesota, things have to start below zero. now i use 15-40 in most everything.

Would not want a dipstick heater. cooks the oil. Very little surface contact.

--->Paul



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