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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Cold Diesel Engine Again

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Johannes

11-13-2005 19:20:32




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I have a Deutz 6206 with a FL912 4 cylinder air cooled diesel engine. It doesn’t have glow-plugs but what looks to me a little heating device which heats up a little bit of diesel fuel. The device is located at the top front of the engine. It is a little cylinder of about 1 and a quarter inch in diameter and 2 inches high. The device takes about 3-4 minutes to get to hot to touch It has a (fuel) line from the fuel pump and a (fuel) line to another little device. This looks to me like a little injector. It is located in the duct which inserts air into the cylinders. After the previously mentioned 3-4 minutes of pre-heating, when I then crank the engine, it turns over and blue smoke is coming out of the exhaust system but the engine doesn’t start.
I have two big batteries cranking the starter, so that shouldn’t be the problem. I changed the oil to 15/40 and the machine doesn’t have a “handy” oil pan for a oil pan heater. It is all heavy duty steel. I would like to avoid heating contraptions. I once tried to start it while forcing hot air into the air intake but to no avail. I assume that this tractor wasn’t built by the Germans for only sunny days to use. It should be able to withstand some chilly days. I hear that Deutz is popular in Scandinavia and Poland. By the way, it was around freezing. Not even that cold.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Johannes

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MSM

11-14-2005 15:30:04




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine Again in reply to Johannes, 11-13-2005 19:20:32  
Sounds like you need to go through the engine.Those Deutz engines usually start down to 10 without any assistance if the compression is good,and the fuel system is in good shape.Sounds like the fuel system is good since you are getting smoke while cranking,probably low on compression.Just disable the thermostart and give it a whiff of ether,no sense burning up the starter trying to spin it til it starts.

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Jerry/MT

11-14-2005 11:05:13




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine Again in reply to Johannes, 11-13-2005 19:20:32  
Sounds like you have thermostart unit that is an air preheater in the intake manifold. To make sure it's working, hold the key near the start position without turning the starter over. After aminute of this, the manifold near the thermostart should feel warmer than the surrounding parts of the manifold. If it doesn't, you'll need to replace the unit or a t least check for welectrical continuity and that fuel is getting to it.
WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T USE ETHER AS A STARTING AID unless you disconnect the thermostart! You run the risk of an explosion in the intake manifold and severe engine damage.

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kyhayman

11-14-2005 07:06:02




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine Again in reply to Johannes, 11-13-2005 19:20:32  
Sounds like the same type of thermostart heaters that are on my Fords, Case/David Browns, and Cats (using 3404 Perkins). Normally takes about a 45 secs of preheat and then 45 secs of cranking to start at 30 deg F. Two heat cycles and t crank cycles at 15, 4 cycles at 0 and so on. If you lose any cranking speed at 4 cycles check batteries and connections.



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JDknut

11-14-2005 04:16:29




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine Again in reply to Johannes, 11-13-2005 19:20:32  
The older Gemmy Detroits used to have a system like that, it was a miniature oil burner that shot flame into the air box sourrounding the cylinders. But then them Gemmies were notorious hard starters in cold weather. The White Perkins had something similar to what you describe, it was called a "thermostart". The one I had never worked very well, but then I used a tank type plug in heater, which is not an option for you. If the engine is tight, in good shape, and the fuel system is in good shape, it should start pretty well unaided to at least 20 degrees F. My 1983 Deere starts unassisted to 10 degrees F. You might look to see if you can warm up the oil system somehow with a plug in heater, they have them for hydraulic systems and tanks, even if remote from the oil sump. You can also get a magnetic stick on external heater for the oil pan or some place on the engine exterior, that plus a tarp may take enough of the chill off to enable it to start. In Germany or Poland it never gets to 35 below like it does here, even most of Scandinavia is warmer than up here. But then there arent many Deutz'z here, but then again there are lots of Same's which are air cooled, too, either they start OK in the cold or their owners use other tractors when it gets real cold. excuse the long rambling post, hope you find a few nuggets of semi-useful info, good luck.

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Jason, NW Ontario

11-14-2005 07:00:27




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine Again in reply to JDknut, 11-14-2005 04:16:29  
I agree with JDknut - magnetic oil pan heaters stick right to the underside, are 200W / 400 degree heat blasters. They price anywhere from $25-45 up here. I too am into the 10 degree conditions now, and combined with a tarp to keep everything protected, it's a good way to go.
good luck



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Myrl (PA)

11-14-2005 03:45:47




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine Again in reply to Johannes, 11-13-2005 19:20:32  
When starting any deisel in cold weather always be sure throttle is at idle position and only crank for short periods of time. crank a few seconds then wait a few seconds. once it is starting to smoke it should fire soon. If not try just a sniff of starting fluid, not much it it can compression lock. If your aircleaner has a screen that will hold a rag the best thing is to put starting fluid on a rag the put rag over the screen and let the air flow take in the starting fluid. Hope this helps, Myrl

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Sid

11-13-2005 19:40:44




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine Again in reply to Johannes, 11-13-2005 19:20:32  
I am not familiar with your engine.Those that I have had experience, with the starting aid like you describe, takes anywhere from 15 to 45 seconds or so depending on how cold it is. I suspect you need to have your "little heating device",I know it as a thermo starting aid, checked out. I think it probably needs to be replaced.



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