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battery polarity

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550Doug

05-14-2006 08:48:35




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Can a 12v battery change its polarity?
I have a 12v battery that at one time was in a Pos-ground system, but I now have it in a Neg ground system. I'm doing a charge on it and have just noticed when I do a voltage check the black lead of my voltmeter, when placed on the'+' battery terminal, gives me a +12.2 volts reading. However, when I do a voltage check on any other 12v battery (like in my car), the black lead of the volt meter on the '-' terminal gives me a +12.4v reading. To me this indicates that I have a Neg ground battery in the car, but a Pos ground battery on the tractor. Does this mean that I cannot use a Pos-ground battery on a tractor that is wired for Neg ground?
Thanks

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souNdguy

05-14-2006 15:19:32




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 Re: battery polarity in reply to 550Doug, 05-14-2006 08:48:35  
Just to add one thing.. for clarity. A battery by itself is not 'positive ground or negative ground.. it is simple.. a battery, with polarity.. an anode and a cathode if you will.

Positive or negative ground is a reference based on application.... That is.. if the anode is common with the frame.. the unit is positively grounded, likewise.. if the cathode is common with the frame.. it is a negative ground application.

walking in and asking for a positive ground or negative ground battery, IMHO, will also get you sent to the parts store for things like 'muffler bearings' .. etc..

Soundguy

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UncleTom

05-14-2006 14:06:44




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 Re: battery polarity in reply to 550Doug, 05-14-2006 08:48:35  
Are you useing a digital volt/ohm meter?



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frankiee

05-14-2006 10:39:48




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 Re: battery polarity in reply to 550Doug, 05-14-2006 08:48:35  
I cant see a battery reversing its polarity.
The battery is sponge lead acting as the cathode and lead dioxide acting as the anode. The flow from electrons to produce amps is always from anode to cathode then it needs recharging.
When recharging the process is reversed and the electrical current from the charger forces the sponge lead back and the lead dioxide back on to the respective plates for use again.
If it were possible to put the Pb on to the PbO2 plate (I don't' think it is) and the PbO2 on to the Pb plate, it certainly would not last long.

A negative ground battery installed in a positive ground system should simply not charge as far as I know. (My father does that all the time). Most systems on a older tractor don't seem to care which way the current is flowing to operate.

I don't' know if this is the truth but this is to my understanding. Somebody please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
I don't know why you would be getting a positive reading on the batteries negative????

I am going to my fathers and mothers in an hour for Mothers Day and he has a Farmall with a positive ground. I will do a volt check.

Its surprising how turned around I can get when they change just 1 little thing like which way the current is going.

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old

05-14-2006 12:08:04




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 Re: battery polarity in reply to frankiee, 05-14-2006 10:39:48  
As Bob says it can and has been done often. Most of the time when it happens the battery will never be as good as it was, or even may not be good at all. BTDT and destoryed a battery when it happened to me but it does happen.



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Bob

05-14-2006 11:31:39




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 Re: battery polarity in reply to frankiee, 05-14-2006 10:39:48  
Frankie,

I can assure you a fully-discharged battery CAN be charged with the polarity reversed, if the charger is connected with the leads swapped.

I am not saying it is GOOD for the battery, or that it will always work, but it DOES happen.

One instance I was involved with was some years ago, with a Deere 7700 combine.

The battery went dead over winter, and my customer removed it, and carried it to his shop to recharge it overnight.

Then, he carried it back to the combine, and tried to connect the cables. As the last cable was touched to the post, it sparked like a dead short.

He called me to have me check out what was shorted on the combine. One way or another, after a little head scratching, I figured out he had charged the dead battery with the polarity reversed, and the alternator diodes were acting as a short when he touched the battery cable to the post.

We connected a headlight to the battery with test leads, and discharged it, and then he correctly connected the charger, and charged it back up.

When it was put back on the combine, all was well.

Luckily, even the alternator survived. (If he had just dropped the cable in place, and not noticed the spark, the alternator would have been toasted.)

I can think of at least 2 other similar instances I have seen personally, where this has happened.

There is no use arguing about it, or denying it can happen. 550Doug verified it DOES happen when he got opposite polarity readings with his voltmeter.

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Coloken

05-14-2006 11:26:11




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 Re: battery polarity in reply to frankiee, 05-14-2006 10:39:48  
You have it all correct..except.. when a battery is built both plates are idenical, sponge lead probably. It is only after charging that they become like you say. Thats the best discription I have heard since high school, and I think you have it 100 percent right. Run it completly down and the plates are lead again and you can charge it the other way. Happens all the time.



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Coloken

05-14-2006 09:00:19




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 Re: battery polarity in reply to 550Doug, 05-14-2006 08:48:35  
When a battery is run down, you have to be carefull. It can be charged up either way.



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Bob

05-14-2006 09:20:48




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 Re: battery polarity in reply to Coloken, 05-14-2006 09:00:19  
Coloken,

You are absolutely correct. I have seen this happen with batteries several times, and the results can really confuse people.


550Doug,

Simply take a spare headlight bulb, or similar load, and let it discharge the battery over a period of hours, and the recharge it with the charger leads properly connected.



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