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OT: leach bed vs. mound system

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Farmer boyy

08-02-2006 18:35:00




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About 3 years ago, I bought a 10 acre piece of farm land near my parents farm. Planning to build a house on it in about 3-4 years. County Department has decided to change the septic system rules and will require almost all new homes to have a mound type system for septic waste beginning next year. Right now, I am told that I could get away with a typical leach bed system for about 1/2 the cost of the mound or evaporation type system. All the contractors are saying this is a bunch of crap because even if a piece of land has an adequate outlet and good soil drainage, they will still be making you install a mound system next year - where this year, it would be a leach system.
I am wondering about getting the permits and installing a leach bed system this year BEFORE the house is built. I'd have to show blueprints of the house, and then could install it and maybe say I ran out of cash to build the house???
If I do this, will the system go bad in 3-4 years without use? Do you see anything wrong with doing this? THanks!

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Hal/WA

08-03-2006 19:09:48




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Farmer boyy, 08-02-2006 18:35:00  
I sure don't know what in the world the government is thinking about! Most of the systems in my area that have been approved in the last 20 years have been mound systems that required an electric pump to work and cost from $5000 to $20000 to engineer and build. And most of those early systems built in the 80's have failed and pour effluent out on top of the ground. Most have also gone through at least one effluent pump.

On the other hand, my gravity flow leach field works just as well now as when I put it in in 1976. Zero problems. I have had to pump the tank a few times, but you also have to do that with a mound system. And my system works when the power is out--it won't back up into the basement like my neighbor's has, twice. Ick!

I think the government agency that controls this got sold a bill of goods by the contractor industry that wants to keep having to repair the made-to-fail above ground systems.

How can it be better for raw effluent to be pouring out on top of the ground and stinking than it is to have the same effluent being properly processed underground by soil bacteria? My old style system sure smells better, and it sure hasn't cost me much money since I put it in for less than $1000.

What a bunch of bureaucratic garbage! I would put in a conventional system before the new rule goes into effect. But only if they will agree in writing that the system would be "grandfathered" in as an existing system for new construction. Good luck!

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Luke S

08-03-2006 07:41:36




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Farmer boyy, 08-02-2006 18:35:00  
I live in rural Franklin county in Missouri. They are about as picky as they come. When we built our new home three years ago we had to have a county approved contractor come out and install a "wetland cell" septic system. It consist of a septic tank which drains into a "wetland cell" which looks to me like a lagoon. Then it drains into another "wetland cell" which then runs out on the ground when it is done. And they installed all this for the low price of only $15,000!

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JRM

08-03-2006 05:38:19




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Farmer boyy, 08-02-2006 18:35:00  
I would get some type of reassurance in writing that you will still be able to connect to a leach bed system in the future. It wouldn't be fun to have a leach bed system installed now and then not be able to connect in the future because of code change and your leach system not being grandfathered since it was never connected.



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dhermesc

08-03-2006 05:57:52




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to JRM, 08-03-2006 05:38:19  
I agree. You might find that when you get your building permit it contains some kind of "automatic" inclusion for a NEW septic system.

Why do "mound" (I'm assuming lagoon) systems cost so much? I built mine two years ago for anout $1100.



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dej(JED)

08-03-2006 05:31:16




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Farmer boyy, 08-02-2006 18:35:00  
All of Pa. is now mound systems. Even if you pass the perk test. Don't wait do the leech system before they stick it to you. The next thing you will get is the mandated building code
regulations. We can't even change shingles on a roof with out a permit. They took it away from the townships here and you have to go to the county offices to get permits. Heck they even regulate water tank replacement, etc. To get the permits requires engineering drawing for a lot of simple stuff. Bunch of crooks just raking in more money in my opinion. But of course it is sold as benificial to the community. We vote for the newest politicians it takes them a little longer to get crooked and as soon as they do they are gone.

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Stan(PA)

08-03-2006 06:04:37




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to dej(JED), 08-03-2006 05:31:16  
Jed, when did this happen? Last I knew, it was minimum of 5 feet of topsoil for "inground", minimum of 18 inches of topsoil for "mound", and anything less required the "mini waste treatment plant". The last one was strange, since it required a stream nearby, to dump the treated and chlorinated waste into!



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Scotmac

08-03-2006 04:44:23




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Farmer boyy, 08-02-2006 18:35:00  
Go for the leachbed! My Dad built the house we live in in 1964 and the leach bed still works great! We dug into it about five years ago,and still doing it's job.



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Billy NY

08-03-2006 04:26:43




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Farmer boyy, 08-02-2006 18:35:00  
Ain't municipalities great ? When you think about it, a septic system with a leachfield is a simple thing. Need soil that percolates well. Dishcharge line from the house to the tank and I forget the inner workings on a precast concrete tank, (baffle ?), dishcharge line from tank, distribution box with the plastic levelers in the lateral holes, so you can equally set the flow, all on a bed of stone and covered with red rosin paper, ( always thought that was a joke, I guess once the grass takes root you don't lose much soil into the stone after the paper rots, why not use a Mirafi type filter fabric, it breaths too, I dunno....

But if that's the cut off date and the code changes, with the cost differential going to escalate, as it always does in construction, I'd think it's a pay now or pay much more later decision. Clearly, it may be a very wise move to see what the code requires you to do now, to get this installed asap and signed off by the health dept.

Locate your house, may need a surveyor to give you some offsets of the building footprint and an elevation or 2 ( benchmarks ) if they have time, have em do the property lines too or as much as they can do, most of them charge for a full day, worth it though, then just maintain them undisturbed, keep em painted so you don't lose them etc., when you are ready to do the house, your layout will be done.

You can eyeball it too if a tight budget, make sure it's reasonably close to where you think the house will be, orientated properly, see if you can get and use the prints to locate it, and that you have slope from the leach field to the d-box, tank and house, be careful and check the code and make sure you are covered so you can get the sign off when it's done.

Rent a rubbered tire backhoe, like a 420 CAT or equivalent, order stone, soil pipe/fittings, bag of mortar mix for patching around pipe if necessary, assuming you will have to submit a stamped drawing to the health dept. follow it and do the work yourself, have the hole ready for the tank, pre-cast guy will set it, on that get the biggest you can afford, check sq. ft. make sure you have minimum capacity, I did that here and on many jobs, seems to be a performance plus with some overkill on the bigger tank size. You can easily set your d-box, and laterals etc. be careful when backfilling after inspection, I prefer a dozer to backfill, but if there is a fair amount of fill on top as cover, a 420 size hoe won't crush pipe if you are careful. Backfill perpendicular to the pipe and keep the fill thickness up, not less than a foot.

You will save some money, get 2 people to help, they go quick usually, we used to install 2 on long day sometimes, and backfill em later after inspection.

Contractor needs 10% & 10% on top of material cost, plus the add in feature, ( how much they try and get beyond a reasonable profit ), you pay for machine, materials and your time, you should be able to install it in a day and beat any quotes, plus you learn something.

Fill tank with water, backfill leachfield carefully, cap off all necessary ends, not sure if critters will bother it, 4" soil pipe might be kind of hard to chew on, so I'd not worry about it, at least you'll have the least expensive and less obtrusive system in already even if later repairs were an issue, which I doubt. If money is an issue, now is the time to hustle, take a loan out after preparing a reasonable estimate on your own, I'd have to check current prices to figure a system here, I'd like to think under $10,000 for one, if you do it yourself, certainly no more than that, $300 a month for 3 years + or - like a used car loan. Soil pipe is like $6.50 /10 ft. at H.D. might want to check a plumbing/pipe supply house for better pricing, local clean crushed stone prices, precast tanks, rental equipment, help for the day, surveyor is the gist of it.

I see the guy across the street has a lump in his yard, he had no choice though, kind of screws up your yard I think.

One thing that will clog a leach field is waste water from a washing machine, the lint is the culprit, here we used a seperate drywell tank for all other waste water, leaving the septic for just the toilet.

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JDknut

08-03-2006 03:50:48




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Farmer boyy, 08-02-2006 18:35:00  
"Mound" or evapo-transporation systems are used where the ground water table is high and/or depth to bedrock is shallow. When the soil has a good percolation rate and there is at least 2 feet between the high ground water table and the bottom of the leach lateral trench, a conventional leach field system will work just fine. To just require a "mound" system without taking into account site condiditons is ridiculous. When you have good subsurface conditions, a leach system works just as well and is a lot easier to construct and maintain.

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massey333

08-03-2006 10:05:57




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to JDknut, 08-03-2006 03:50:48  
There was a article a while back(in a farm paper) that stated ONLY 6% of land will support a leach field and as of 2007 ALL SYSTEMS will have to be upgraded to a MOUND SYSTEM by a APPROVED CONTRACTOR.$10,000 UP, POOR PEOPLE maybe able to get help.



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the Unforgiven

08-02-2006 21:52:12




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Farmer boyy, 08-02-2006 18:35:00  
Sitting idle should not bother a bit. When I install a new drainfield I put it in a couple inches below the old one but keep the old one hooked up, it will dry up and give more service when the new one is getting tired. If you do put in a tank it must be full of water up to it's operating level, they really suck when they float out of the ground. And stay away from the 4 inch perforated pipe. If your add up the surface area of all those little holes you don't have squat. A product called Infiltrator is tough to beat, it is an "A" frame plastic tunnel that is easy to install and offers massive surface area on the sides and bottom, one eight foot piece will outperform a hundred feet of perforated pipe. I usually put in 50 to 80 ft of it, here in NE anyway.

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Joe in IN

08-02-2006 19:46:07




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Farmer boyy, 08-02-2006 18:35:00  
Once had to back out on a purchase agreement for some land due to Mound system issue. Developer put the drain too high in the ground so the inground system wouldn't work(the perimeter drain wouldn't drain uphill). Took it to court, lost. Contract was silent as to the type of system. I got homered actually.... Cost me $1500... Would do the same thing again.

Don't mess around with a mound system. Get the inground system installed asap.

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Larry806

08-02-2006 19:10:55




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Farmer boyy, 08-02-2006 18:35:00  
Well here in my part of Ohio a leach system cost's about 6000 . The entry level for the mound system is 22000. That is the reason my son had to move. The woman that owned the ground where he lives sold it to her niece so she could hurry up & get the permit. We're going to start installing his septic system next week



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Lumpy

08-02-2006 18:48:41




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Farmer boyy, 08-02-2006 18:35:00  
No! the leach system will not go bad in 3 or 4 yrs. They are designed to last a life time. Here in Iowa, the tanks are made of concrete an the leach lines are no more than 4" pvc pipe. Figure out what size house you want, for example a 1500 square foot house will take a 1200 gallon tank, and put the system in. You can always run the pipe into it later. A word of caution.... I have heard of empty septic tanks " floating " up out of the ground during a wet year.

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don t.-9n180179

08-03-2006 02:00:41




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Lumpy, 08-02-2006 18:48:41  
Im not sure if its a county or state reg, but in N. central Il., a septic field is based upon the number of bedrooms. A bedroom is defined as a room w/a door that contains a closet. Thats how it was was 8 years ago.



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DickTN

08-02-2006 18:39:47




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 Re: OT: leach bed vs. mound system in reply to Farmer boyy, 08-02-2006 18:35:00  
Don't know much about this, but I do know that if you install a septic tank, you best fill it with water or it will be apt to float up out of the ground in the first rainstorm. Not sure if your leach fields would suffer any damage from non-use. Might possibly become homes for burrowing rodents like woodchucks or the like.



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