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Get a proper will !!

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Ray

08-18-2006 16:11:56




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About 15 years ogo dad died in ohio and left several hunded acres to me and my sister.She moved away a few years later and married a man in oklahoma.I had been farming the ground all along.Seven months ago her husband died of cancer,last week my sister of 54 years died of an asthma attack.According to the oklahoma lawyer her husband left everything to her and she to him,but in his will there was a clause
that gives his kids from a previous marriage control of the estate.So,as of now my sisters estate,house, farms,personal items valued at over a million dollars go to 4 step kids,2 of which see never saw till here husbands
funeral.None of his kids even visited him for the year and a half he suffered from cancer.So guys protect yourself,get that will checked out.

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John T Lawyer Update

08-19-2006 07:53:46




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to Ray, 08-18-2006 16:11:56  
Ray, this is getting a lil tricky but based on your latest post I will try n take it n update a lil from there. I agree, the attorney for the stepchildren IS NOT YOUR FRIEND..... .

"From what i gather so far her husband had a large trust that listed his kids as heirs and it rolled over into my sisters estate when he died"

OKAY, if he had a Trust and if he placed any property into that trust, it would pass by terms of the trust to its named beneficiaries and would NOT be a probate assett and he could have left it to whomever. YOU GOTTA REVIEW THAT TRUST BEFORE WE CAN ANSWER THESE TYPE QUESTIONS.

"Her will leaves everything to him so the step kids attorney says that makes them the heirs"

ANSWER maybe n maybe nottttt ttt They are NEVER her heirs at law although they may well indeed be his. "A living person has no heirs" heirs are determined by the laws of intestste succession when a person dies intestste. When he died first his property passed to his heirs (ONLY if intestste),,,,,or to his devisees under his will (provided he cant disinherit his spouse by law) ,,,,, ,,,or to the beneficiaries under a trust in which he placed certain property into the trust. When he was alive I dont see how he could place any of your farm into the trust since (UNLESS she conveyed to him her interest in the farm with a deed WHICH I SERIOUSLY DOUBT)

BUTTTTT TTTTT TTT he was dead,,,,, ,,,sooooo o depending on how her will was drafted determines who takes in the event the beneficiary predeceases the testator. Remember, he predeceased her and isnt available to take when she later died. Sooooo o you say her will left all to him but you need to see the will for what it says about who takes should he predecease her.

PLUS REMEMEBER When your sis died stepchildren are NOTTTTT TTTT her heirs under intestate succession, however, her valid will could name whomever as beneficiaries, stepchildren or my mother in law. The stepchildren are heirs of their father by intestste succession NOT their Stepmother (stepchildren are NOT children of a decedent) so when he died who took what under his will or trust AGAIN YOU NEED TO SEE THAT BEFORE you know what your sis took when her hubby predeceased her

Things in your favor are the fact HE DIED FIRST. His estate needs to be settled up to see who and what takes under the terms of his trust and/or Will and then thats settled. Perhaps your sis was beneficiary under his Will or Trust and perhaps she was not HOWEVER the law states a person can disinherit his children but NOTTTTT his spouse and if he tries the Court can set it aside by allowing the spouse to elect to "Take Against the Will" in which case shes entitled to one half of his probate estate and his children the other half. Sooooo ooooo it looks like she inherited (or can by operation of law) at least something from him and that depends on the terms of the trust and will which we dont have for review..... ..

GOOD THINGS IN YOUR FAVOR is the farm was left to you n your sis NOT to you and her hubby i.e. that was hers as when she died it passes to 1) Her heirs if intestste 2) Her devisees under her will (but then we gotta know who the will passed it to if the hubby predeceased her) 3) Perhaps your dads will granted it to you n your sis as Joint Tenants whereby its now alllll lll yours PERIOD NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

BOTTOM LINE Theres no sense in trying to analyze any of this any further UNTIL we had both wills,,,,, ,,the hubbys trust,,,,, ,,your fathers estate papers and records and any executors or administratirs or personal representative deeds..... ..... With that alllll in hand any competent estste attorney can provide a good legal opinion of who gets what as a matter of law and depending on the draftign of all those documents what, if any, arguments or legal issues may be arguably capable of a challenge.

YOU GOTTA GET A GOOD LOCAL ESTATE ATTORNEY TO REPRESENT YOU and in the meantime I wouldnt necessarily believe or sign anything the attorney for the stepkids sends you.

The pure speculations or guesses of my self an attorney or any lay persons at this time without having the wills and trusts and your fathers estste papers in front of us is TOTALLY WORTHLESS

Best wishes, God Bless n let us know what happens..... .

John T Retired EE now a Country Lawyer

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Ray

08-19-2006 04:50:48




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to John T Country Lawyer, 08-18-2006 20:18:13  
We have a lawyer in oklahoma looking at the will now.From what i gather so far her husband had a large trust that listed his kids as heirs and it rolled over into my sisters estate when he died.
Her will leaves everything to him so the step kids attorney says that makes them the heirs.He was a very successful bussiness man and the estate could be worth several million dollars,
but we don't have access to that info.In oklahoma there are no limits on what a lawyer can charge for probate fees and the person who protest the wills legal fees are paid out of the estate.It could stay in court till everything is gone.I can't go into much more here.Thanks.

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TomH in PA

08-19-2006 06:19:49




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to Ray, 08-19-2006 04:50:48  
Don't believe anything the kid's lawyer says at this point. He's getting paid to get all of the money for them however he can, even if it means bluffing you.

And lawyer is a private citizen like you and me, he has no authority to make a decision. That's what judges are for.



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MarkB_MI

08-19-2006 05:17:42




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to Ray, 08-19-2006 04:50:48  
Ray,

John T has (as always) given you some sound advice. Note that you need to do some research in your home state of Ohio to determine what is the real ownership of your farm. It sounds to me like there's a very real possibility that your sister's stepchildren have no claim on the farm. If you and your sister were Joint Tenants, you get it all. Even if you and your sister were tenants-in-common, it sounds like you are her next-of-kin.

I believe the fact that she named her husband as her heir is irrelevant unless her will specifically names her stepchildren as heirs if her husband preceded her in death.

It sounds far more probable that you have a claim on your sister's husband's estate than that her stepchildren have a claim on your sister's estate. Their lawyer may be posturing in hopes you'll drop your claims to the husband's estate in return for them dropping their claim to your sister's estate.

Another thing to consider: Did you and your sister have a signed lease regarding your operation of the farm? If so, and if the lease has a right of first refusal clause, you can make it very difficult for them cash out their interest.

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GeorgeH

08-18-2006 22:33:02




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to John T Country Lawyer, 08-18-2006 20:18:13  
A will can be next to worthless in Ohio. You can't disinherit your wife.



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MarkB_MI

08-18-2006 19:59:58




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to Ray, 08-18-2006 16:11:56  
Help me to understand:

Your sister inherited half of your dad's estate. Her husband preceded her in death, so she still owned the estate. Then she died intestate (without a will), which means her estate goes to her next of kin. IANAL, but if she has no natural children I think you would be her next of kin. Any clause her husband put in his will is irrelevant, since he died first.

Of course, if your sister deeded an interest in the property to her husband, then the stepkids might have a case. But that deed would have to be recorded in your local courthouse. Which I somehow doubt it is.

This lawyer in Oklahoma has nothing to lose and everything to gain by asserting a claim on your sister's estate. Consult a GOOD lawyer.

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B-maniac

08-18-2006 19:13:06




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to Ray, 08-18-2006 16:11:56  
If it just says they have control of the estate,that doesn't mean they OWN it.It isn't in their name,presumably,and in order to get it in their name it has to go through Probate Court and that is where you should go to protest the will.If the circumstances are as you say,there's a good chance the court will do the dividing up.



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Midwest redneck

08-18-2006 16:41:36




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to Ray, 08-18-2006 16:11:56  
AMEN..... It is amazing how family members can become money grabbing bums. My wife and I got a living trust setup so that if we die my son is the total beneficiary and not uncle sambo..... I would roll over in my grave if 1/2 my house and investments we robbed from my son.



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Vacherie

08-18-2006 18:58:57




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-18-2006 16:41:36  
Why would Uncle Sambo get 1/2?



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Midwest redneck

08-19-2006 02:23:05




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to Vacherie, 08-18-2006 18:58:57  
I believe it is called estate tax.



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MarkB_MI

08-19-2006 11:30:35




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-19-2006 02:23:05  
Redneck,

If you think you can avoid estate tax via a trust, think again. Revocable trusts ("living wills") avoid probate. They do not avoid estate tax. And if your lawyer tells you otherwise, it might be time to get a new lawyer.



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BobMo

08-18-2006 19:19:43




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to Vacherie, 08-18-2006 18:58:57  
Lucky for you and I Uncle Sambo only takes 1/2 from people who don't know what their talking about..... ....



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john d

08-18-2006 16:38:08




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to Ray, 08-18-2006 16:11:56  
I'll second that!

We didn't go through that kind of mess when my parents died. We DID however, find that the deeds recorded in the county courthouse had some MAJOR errors in them, and it took some legal action and a surveyor to straighten it all out. It's a good thing my sister and I have always been on good terms. If we'd gotten in a fight over the mess, the legal fees could have eaten most of the estate. Check the way those deeds are recorded, also!

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williamf

08-19-2006 07:23:35




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 Re: Get a proper will !! in reply to john d, 08-18-2006 16:38:08  
It's a disgusting aspect of human nature that so many would rather see that their lawyers got half the estate than that their cousins did.
Wm



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