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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Can Somebody Explain this to me?.

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Author 
O

09-09-2006 10:48:21




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How can the corperate farmers thrive so while the smaller farmers are going out?. I heard it's alittle cheaper to run a corperate farm that buys everything in bulk, but still, a corperate farm doesn't keep the older machinery that the smaller farms do. When I talk about smaller farms, I am talking about single farms under 300 acres and most of them around here have been owned by the same family by a couple of generations, and are all paid off, their tractors are 30yrs old, and they are crying they have to dip into their savings to keep going with the current milk prices. On the other side of the fence, there are about a half dozen corperate farmers that want to buy every piece of farm land in sight in this area, they got the latest and greatest high dollar equipment and seem to trade up every 2-3yrs, I am not sure if they are actually buying it or just leasing, but either way the payments have got to be a killer, but they must be making the payments somehow since they continue to stay in buisness. See, thats what I just don't understand, how can the man who has old equipment ain't making money, and these other guys who have a million dollars worth of new equipment in their yard appear to be doing much better, I would think that it should be the other way around?. The smaller farms are using old buildings that were built way back in the day, the corperate farms bought acreage, and built state of the art brand new facilitys to house a couple thousand cows. See,I don't understand how these corperate guys can spend spend spend and come out ahead, I realise they recive alot more money because they are milking more cows, but if you can't make it work on a small scale, seems like going bigger would just be mulitplying the problems and it appears to me like their expenses are much higher due to the fact they are taking out huge loans to buy more land and then need mega high dollar equipment to be able to cover all that acreage. I figgure there has to be something I don't know?, because I don't understand how these corperate farmers can afford to operate with all these payments on $11 milk.

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thejdman01

09-10-2006 18:08:12




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 Re: Can Somebody Explain this to me?. in reply to O, 09-09-2006 10:48:21  
It is also like the "walmart vs small bus man." Many buy inbulk to save money. Also, it is like anything else,it takes money to make money. If you have 100 acres try spreading a 230,000 dollar combine out over that many acres. Spread that same machine over 5000 acres. If a small farmer has oone bad field 100 acres and farms 500 that breaks the farmer. If the 5000 acre man has a bad year some light sandy ground it only dents his bottom line. Say a big farmer has 5000 acres spread from central Il to southern wi, and sudden death affids hits an area little guy is gone big guy is hurt a bit. Also, I know of some farms around here that are owned by bigger companies lawyer firms landscape companies etc that if they have a loss its not a big deal as they right it off. Big farms can also have huge cpa'sand can find tax loop holes that the small man cant find or get.

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Sid

09-09-2006 19:39:51




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 Re: Can Somebody Explain this to me?. in reply to O, 09-09-2006 10:48:21  
Who says they are thriving. How many of them intend to make money and how many where set up to burn or hide money. If you want to know what a lot of them are after and how they do it.



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Mike M

09-09-2006 16:00:52




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 Re: Can Somebody Explain this to me?. in reply to O, 09-09-2006 10:48:21  
Small farms are thriving in Ohio alot of them are Amish. Most of the farms they don't buy end up in allotments.



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barnrat

09-09-2006 11:36:24




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 Re: Can Somebody Explain this to me?. in reply to O, 09-09-2006 10:48:21  
I don't know what your talking about large dairys(200 to 1000 cows) are dropping like flies around here. Small farms seem to be doing OK. I know me personally my wife and I milk 50 cows. I also work 2 other part time jobs. My bills are paid. I don't own the newest equipment, but if I need something I'll buy it. And unlike the large farms who continually just pay interest on there mega-million farm loans. I actually will own my farm in 2015. I don't believe you can do anything about milk prices. Just hafta learn new things and change farm managment.

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Dave from MN

09-09-2006 11:29:31




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 Re: My opinion... long. in reply to O, 09-09-2006 10:48:21  
Well, I am (a little guy) and am just starting out this next year. Alot of it is lack of business management. A farm HAS to be run like a business. Yes, the big guys get some discount on volume purchaeses. So can smaller farmers if they barter or make purchases with other farmers to get the bulk discounts. Smaller farmers also are less apt to change practices either resulting in excess fuel, labor,time,equipment usage. Also the large farmers are also on top of every program available out there- resulting in state/federal payments that many times cover thier land rental costs plus more. They also qet cost shares where enrolling in a program the get reimburesed by state/federal funds for up to 50% or more. Good way to keep equipment costs down, huh. Many smaller farmers are not even aware these programs exist so they do not even apply. Also when there is a certain $$ amount available though a grant or such, it seems that a farmer with 3000 acres he wants to enroll will get granted the $$ rather than 30 small farmers that have 100 acres they can enroll. Well, when you have 3000 acres enrolled in , lets say the "equip" program, you get $30/acre plus cost share, and if the land is also in say DCP they may get another $20/acre or more. So 30000 acres at $50/acre in programs is a pretty nice check to get your crops in, isnt it. Smaller farmers also do not have the storage they should so they sell at market price during harvest when prices may be low. If you talk to some big farmers they always say they are losing money, on paper yes some years they make it look that way, but beleive me they are not. If you farm smart, you can make money wether you farm 20 acres or 20,000 acre's. There is a certain % that you make on you farm, the bigger your farm the bigger the income, the % profit only gains a small amount as you grow, your farm is like a savings account with fees, the more land you run(cash in the bank) the more crops you harvest (= to the interst you earn in savings), the more you gain. The big problem I see right now is the small guys not having the business edge to m ake the best moves. They sell out, big guy rents out there land ( sometimes with contracts for years), grain- livestaock prices will go up and the big guys will reap the profits and the small guy will not have the money to buy all the equipment back he needs to farm his own. This is quite long and I have a lot more to say. But bottem line is small farms can make it, and they need to once again farm as neighbors and farm finnancially smart. The farm land is shrinking, the world population is growing, at some point in the near future farming will be the career to be in to make big money and the small farms will be gone. Millionairs know this and that is why you are seeing more corperate farms grabbing all they can and trying to push out the little guys. I am seeing right now in my community, si I am starting up as a small guy and will learn, and I will share ALL my cost saving and positive cash flow techniques with my small farm freinds around here.

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Questions

09-09-2006 21:17:26




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 Re: My opinion... long. in reply to Dave from MN, 09-09-2006 11:29:31  
Bottom line of your post with DCP, and all the rest- you don't know what you are complaining about.! State payments? on farm programs? Farm program is a Federal thing. Cost shares of 50 % or more? equip program? Grants?- from who? what is that? Long post with nothing to back it up.



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massey333

09-10-2006 14:33:12




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 Re: My opinion... long. in reply to Questions, 09-09-2006 21:17:26  
VERY good reply to a stupid Post.Where are all these Freebies anyway??One way a larger farmer CAN MAYBE do better is lower input cost Per Acre because the Seed-Fert.-Chem-Equip People want their Business and cut better Prices to them.None of the Equipment Cos. are making Equipment for the 500 to1500 Acre Farmers any more either.This Old stuff isn't going to last forever and this "new" stuff(trade ins) is going to cost a lot to maintain or rebuild do to the acres allready thru them at trade in time.

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Nebraska Cowman

09-09-2006 11:13:33




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 Re: Can Somebody Explain this to me?. in reply to O, 09-09-2006 10:48:21  
Inflation. As long as they keep borrowing money for more land and bigger equipment their net worth increases and they can continue to borrow. They can't stop or they would be bankrupt in just a few years.



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O

09-09-2006 11:44:30




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 Re: Can Somebody Explain this to me?. in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 09-09-2006 11:13:33  
WOW!, I was wondering if they were building a house of cards. One fellow told me that they were buying land that they would never get paid off in a lifetime of farming, but they looked at it as if they bought a piece of land for $1 million and paid off $500,000 on it in their lifetime of farming, then if they sold the land for the $1 million, they would be worth $500,000, but we both know that the price of land will most likely be even higher in the future, but if it isn't and the price of land drops, then they would be worth nothing. Sounds like they will most likely work like a dog all their life and end up with no retirement then?, and they can't get out of it now without oweing millions right now.

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