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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

What Dozer/Loader to buy?

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JRINST

10-17-2006 09:55:28




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Hello, I am getting close to retiring and need to clean my farm up. Old timber land that has grow back up in last 12 years. i also want to dig/create a few ponds on the place. I have looked at D-5,6,7 and not sure. Recentley looked at a HD16, anyone know much about Allis Chalmer? I have a nice MF to do the finnal grading stuff. I'm in TN and we have hard ground/rocks. Anyone have free advice? Thanks

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RodInNS

10-18-2006 05:13:11




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 Re: What Dozer/Loader to buy? in reply to JRINST, 10-17-2006 09:55:28  
I guess everybody has their preferences with dozers; the same as everything else. Around here we've cleared land with both an old 1150 Case and a D4H Cat. The 1150 was a slick old machine with the split drives; could turn on a dime. The Cat can't do that, but in most respects it outclasses the old 1150 we had. For my part, I can't say that there's really anything that the 4H couldn't do. It's busted out 3' diameter stumps, and moved rocks that weight a good deal more than it does. I dug one out this spring that was buried 5 feet deep and near the length of the machine. The top of this bugger was sticking up above the surface. Was actually a piece of bedrock. I dug for close to 2 hours before it finally walked out of the hole... Couldn't push it. It had to be "walked" one corner at a time. Those are the times I wish I had a 5 or 6. Also keep in mid that the Cat hightracks are a good deal more machine than their comparable number conventional track units. The D4H would class more like a 5C or 5D; the D5H would class like the old D6C.
One failing I will say with this machine though is the 6 way blade. I've busted a few different things related to the "singletree" (cat's name for the cross piece that the angle cylinders actuate). I've had that broken through it's pinhole so many times it's not fit, and I've actually torn the bolts free of the blade on their mounting points. For heavy work get a machine with an outboard dozer frame rather than the internal "U" frame. It's a nice slick system, but it won't stand up to the abuse that the outside push arms will take.
If i was looking for another machine I'd probably go for a 5, but the 4 will do. It's just slower. One thing I would do though is look for a smaller, newer machine in better condition rather than a big old trap that will need work. If I only had X amount of money to work with, that's what I would want to do.... Either that or a good 20 tonne class excavator with a hydraulic thumb like a 200 Hitachi.... So many choices.... Good luck.

Rod

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Billy NY

10-17-2006 19:37:33




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 Re: What Dozer/Loader to buy? in reply to JRINST, 10-17-2006 09:55:28  
I like Caterpillar, for various reasons, but am not impartial to them, just that I know they made some well designed and built tractors that stood up to the abuse in the 40's-60's, so if you find an old D-6, 7 or 8 in decent operating condition, it ought to be worth looking into. I've seen many appearing to be in good shape, reasonably priced, few years back some nice military 7E's or G's with hardly any hours on them, like $10,000. I like the old 7's they made a lot of them, still resources around to fool with them.

Hard soil, rocks, and clearing overgrown land, you will want to make sure whatever you intend to buy has been looked over, final drives, transmission, undercarriage not worn out etc. Finding the right one, in the condition you want, maybe with some known history would be the best scenario, better to spend a little more on something you have confirmed to be in good or better operable condition, than something that might need extensive work. These can be costly to rebuild.

Some operators are not kind to these kind of machines, especially some of the bigger ones like the 8's and 9's, they were meant to be worked hard. I know a lot depends on how the operator treated them and how well they were maintained.

As I've been told, some of the A-C and Internationals were weaker in the final drives, but by the same token, some of these were a lot easier to work on then the same era Caterpillars.

I think its fair to say, looking for things like metal bits at the bottom of a final drive housing, or prying against a sprocket to see if it is loose on the shaft and other things of the sort, like getting to demo it for a few hours or run it until operating temperature to see whats going on, is good measure for any MFR. of these, each has their traits and those are how most derive their preferences, which are always interesting to hear about. Everyone has a unique preference, usually based on power, controls, feel, balance, ease of repair, serviceability, etc.

Besides all the caterpillar ones, I've ran some of JD's early 1010's 350-450's later ones, 550's 650's, few years back, in '94 had a new 550, that was an excellent grading tractor, plenty of the Komatsu's small-large, some of the Case 450's 850's, also ran the JD 850 similar to the 750 described here, when in decent order they will all do this kind of work. That 850 was quick, turning was real fast, the thing would spin in a circle, something about them though, early 80's ones, repairs on that era hydrostatic drive, have to check those out I think, also think it took JD awhile to refine that kind of drive, might be completely wrong though, no expert on them. Ran a 650 JD last year, nice machine. I remember one morning, a young foreman decided to try the 850 JD out. I was pulling into the site with the lowboy and the sun was just coming up, he nosed over a hump too quickly and saw his silhouette, he got launched out of the seat, right onto the hood, just about kissed the stack, ouch I'm thinking, glad he stayed on the hood, he was not wearing the seatbelt, those tracks are unforgiving.

Same guy I pulled out of a collapsed trench one morning, up to his neck in it, we used to have fun I guess you would say, he's lucky to be here today, and I am glad he did not get hurt, seemed to be accident prone, he got out of the site work business though.

If you plan on dealing with a lot of large rocks, you may want to avoid a 6 way blade and stay with a straight blade with tilt control, outside push arms will take a lot more abuse vs. a 6 way. Hard ground, roots, frost, a ripper is a nice tool, not necessary by any means, still nice to have, adds weight to some machines and balances them, really makes a D8K heavy, but that 4 barrel one was a powerful tool, I used to enjoy ripping huge chunks of frost, rock was hard on your back though.

Brush and trees, they do come out of nowhere and will nail you when you least expect it, and it hurts, I've cleared a lot of brush with my old ford tractor and my old D7 with no protection and even when being careful, something will get you snap at or poke you. Nice to have limb risers, brush cab, r.o.p.s for falling objects and other reasons. If you are dealing with trees, definitely use care, things can go wrong quickly. I'm comfortable using my D7 in the brush and small trees, have no over head protection, so I will not go in the woods or near any dead trees, it's not worth the risk, an old one, not the most powerful when hard digging, pushing, but it will clear land nicely, and run for years with good maintenance. I like it for this work, and I enjoy running it when I can.

Brush and clearing can be really nasty work, especially when you get whacked with limbs, saplings and other things, last time I got nailed with a tree, I had already cut it down but was kind of hung in the vines a bit, or some darn thing, I figured I'd knock it the rest of the way down, and it looked to be down far enough already, but somehow, part of it came up and knocked me square on the side of the head as I passed it, track flipped it up, still don't know what it was. A pretty good whack, thought my path was clear though, had no idea of the danger.

The other thing to consider is parts availability and I'll bet from owning that M-F crawler you know about parts availability for it, that can certainly make things tough to repair quickly, another thing to keep in mind, as far as the MFR. of what you purchase.

If you know anyone who is good with the internal parts like the finals and can help you measure out an undercarriage, have an eye for cracks, repairs, poorly done repair welds, this is a help too.

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McRay

10-17-2006 16:05:13




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 Re: What Dozer/Loader to buy? in reply to JRINST, 10-17-2006 09:55:28  
I owne and have had very good luck with Komatsu Dozers they are very easy to work on and easy to get parts and price are very reasable. Check crawer & Dozer form.



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Turke Bros. Farms

10-17-2006 16:04:38




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 Re: What Dozer/Loader to buy? in reply to JRINST, 10-17-2006 09:55:28  
Our family has been doing road construction and municipal work for years, along with our generation of buying and selling equipment. I have ran Cat, Deere, Allis Chalmers, Dresser, MF. The best and what we still use is Case, it has true accelerator, and very friendly to use. We have a 450C as a light grade and a 1150G for heavy. You will find most case machines use a Cummins Motor. Thanks



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JMS/MN

10-17-2006 14:56:36




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 Re: What Dozer/Loader to buy? in reply to JRINST, 10-17-2006 09:55:28  
Been looking at dozers for two years. Engines are cheap to fix- final drives, clutches, and especially the UC is the money pit. If you don't know how to measure links, rails, pads, sprockets, etc- take someone along who does when you go looking. Watch the crawler board here for info, as well as acmoc and ibdozing.



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doogdoog

10-17-2006 14:20:50




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 Re: What Dozer/Loader to buy? in reply to JRINST, 10-17-2006 09:55:28  
Aloha, A ripper in the back helps.

Mahalo,
doogdoog



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in sticks

10-17-2006 13:41:00




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 Re: What Dozer/Loader to buy? in reply to JRINST, 10-17-2006 09:55:28  
as far a a loader,the cat 951 track type was hard to beat at the ski area where i worked ,did just about everything we asked with not much maint.they do not like greasy soil or hard packed snow,you can take a very quick ride on either.



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the tractor vet

10-17-2006 10:32:10




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 Re: What Dozer/Loader to buy? in reply to JRINST, 10-17-2006 09:55:28  
BEst advice that i can give is buy something that ya can still get parts for and in all the years i have been around heavy equipment the Allis are the ones that were always broke down . I my younger years i worked for a vary large constuction co. and we had every make of equipment that was made at the time and we had some HD 16's and HD 21's and they were what seamed like always down along with the I.H.'s The Cat's would seam to go longer before they would go down , but it is like this if man made it it will break . If myself was going out to get a dozer to play with and depending on what size job i was tryen to do ever since i parked my Arrs on a John Deere 750 back in 77 i have realy like them it was the first dozer that i ever ran that would work as fast as i like to work , now one thing that i did learn about them is that for some reason that there seams to be hard to find two that run the same . The first one i put almost 2400 hours on it in 6 months working in the oil patch and i know some smart arrs is going to ask if i slept on it and the answer is yes there were a lot of days that i was out on the job nostop for two to three days at a stretch and found that the hood was about the best place to catch twenty winks . Plum wore out the under carrage on it and replaced it with SALT track . One tought machine cutting in lease roads building locations and pullen in and out everything from drillen rigs to farc crews and at time we would do 4 frac's a day now thats a lot of pullen and pushen and moving . THe one grew cheif or pusher for Halliburton would alway have me get him and his crew in and out of locations as he told me that i was twice as fast as then DARN SLOW OLD Cats and he never ever saw anybody pull two trucks and push one like i did . So i gave my preferance for a dozer that will clear land and dig ponds and handel like a skidsteer , Now ya would want limb risers a stright blade with tilt and a , as far as i am concerned a Hyster W6F winch with 1 1/8 cable on her and realy good deep grousers . THis machine is rated to be at the D 5 Cat level but will out do any D6D that i ever came across and run wright with a darn GOOD D7.

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kyhayman

10-17-2006 10:28:43




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 Re: What Dozer/Loader to buy? in reply to JRINST, 10-17-2006 09:55:28  
My personal preference for an all around dozer is a 550 Deere or an 850 Case (6 way blade in either case). On the rare occassions I need something bigger, I can rent it.



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