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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

PTO extended through Hydraulic pump

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Garry Cottrell

11-11-2006 19:59:04




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I need help.I have a 1530 John Deere with no hydraulic hookups so I bought a Prince HC-PTO-1A which runs off my 540 RPM PTO shaft.The ports run a front loader and also a rear port for hay equipment,log splitter or whatever.The PROBLEM is if I need my PTO I have to remove pump and lines to hook bush hog,post hole digger or any pto operated machine.The hydraulic pump has a 6 spline female all the way through the pump and mounted to the tractor there are still more than 3 inches left to put in male shaft.How do I extend a shaft to run pto equip. and leave pump un disturbed? I can always cut my machinery shaft if it is to long.One more thing is there is no pins to lock in any shafts in the 6 spline pump.Any help or part recommendation will be greately appreciated.Thanks...Garry

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big jt

11-13-2006 00:09:01




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-11-2006 19:59:04  
Hey Garry

Here is the shaft you are looking for.

I would hook into the tractor hydraulics myself. Just remember you will need to reconfigure the valve for closed center.

jt



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Garry Cottrell

11-13-2006 04:44:31




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to big jt, 11-13-2006 00:09:01  
Thanks bigjt I found a mechanic that seems to be pretty good on hydraulics and he basically told me the same as the info I've received here and he's going to help tap into my hydraulics and setup the lines I need.I want to thank you for the ad on the extended shaft because I may still need it on another tractor so I am going to order it just to have one around.I could not find one anywhere or a store that sold them...garry

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big jt

11-13-2006 08:26:36




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-13-2006 04:44:31  
That place has a lot of neet stuff if you are into doit yourself type projects.

I think you will be happier hooked into the tractor hyd's than with the factory stuff like the dealership was looking at.

jt



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Garry Cottrell

11-13-2006 10:06:30




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to big jt, 11-13-2006 08:26:36  
JT let me run this by you and anyone that wants to respond is welcome because the only thing I know about hydraulics is if not installed right the high pressure can kill or hurt you bad.I was browesing the surplus center and saw a flow divider where one circuit flows in and two circuits flow out.Why couldn't I install one of these in the main pressure line and one port continue on and the tractor operate as it is now and the other circuit flow to my loader valves with open center and operate my loader.I would have to pipe in the return line from my valves to the tractor reservoir.

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big jt

11-13-2006 11:32:19




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-13-2006 10:06:30  
In a closed center system the pressure lines are always under full pressure. The pump effectively shuts off when the pressure is reached and only starts to pump again when oil is used to do something and the pressure drops.

what you are proposing will cause the pump to run all the time will cause premature failure of the pump. Also If memory serves me right the priority divider will cost more than the right loader valve from Surplus Center.

hth

jt

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Garry Cottrell

11-13-2006 15:31:57




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to big jt, 11-13-2006 11:32:19  
That makes sense.I got me a hydraulic book on basics so maybe some of these questions I can find the answer to in the book.I ordered the shaft today from the surplus center thinking someday I may still need it.Thanks for all the help...Garry



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Allan In NE

11-12-2006 03:59:55




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-11-2006 19:59:04  
Garry,

You can buy a PTO extension at any farm/tractor/implement dealer you walk into. 'Bout $35 the last time I checked.

Be sure and chain the pump to hold it forward and ya might want to install a drawbar extension also in some instances, depending on what you are pulling.

Allan

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Garry Cottrell

11-12-2006 04:46:35




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Allan In NE, 11-12-2006 03:59:55  
This is exactely what I want.Does the shaft slip over and couple to my pto and still long enough to go all the way through and look like yours? How long is the extension? Thanks a lot...Garry



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Allan In NE

11-12-2006 05:09:15




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-12-2006 04:46:35  
These things have been around since the stone age and you can buy 'em in any length ya want. I always use the 15" length; the 18" is really too long and anything else is too darned short to be of any use (for me anyway).

Early PTOs had a hole drilled thru 'em and the machinery PTO shaft was held on with a bolt.

Nowadays ya don't see that anymore, so you have to "chain" the pump forward to hold it and the extension in place. Then, your added implement will just snap on like usual.

They are a very tight fit to your PTO, so clean up your shaft good. Might have to "tap" the extension on with a light hammer.

You might see a tiny bit of "wobble" when you use one of these gizmos. Don't give it a thought. Darned thing only turns at 540 rpm anyway; not fast enough to even matter.

Allan

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Garry Cottrell

11-12-2006 05:48:49




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Allan In NE, 11-12-2006 05:09:15  
This is exactely what I want ,of all my years I've never seen or known they made one this length.Thanks so much.I now know what to ask for and see if I can find one.I know there is not one in 2 hours of where I live but now I will find it.This has been a great help.All peoples replies have been great...Garry



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low budget

11-12-2006 01:44:57




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-11-2006 19:59:04  
The question I have is; why didn't you just tap into the tractor hydraulics for remotes? If I'm not mistaken its a closed center system. It would be easy to add on a closed center valve and couplers.



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Garry Cottrell

11-12-2006 04:40:33




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to low budget, 11-12-2006 01:44:57  
That was my question but my only problem was we don't have anyone I know of that knows anything about hydraulics so I went to the John Deere dealer and the starting price for aftermarket if he could find them started at 1500.00 dollars.This pump is $400.00.I have excellent hydraulics on my tractor and this is what would make everything easier but I don't know anyone that knows anything about this and I won't just let anyone around here botch up my tractor.I thought this could be done if I had the correct hydraulic mechanic.I will look into this if I find someone who knows about hydraulics.My new prince pump works fine on my loader.Thanks for the input and any more help will be appreciated...Garry

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low budget

11-12-2006 11:18:14




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-12-2006 04:40:33  
Should be a priority valve under the right side running board attached to the trans housing. The line off the main pump runs up to it. (Power steering line comes off the main line somewhere. The valve maintains steering pressure if pump output is low.)There should be a plug on this valve you can remove and plumb a hose from it to a CLOSED center valve.(You would have an open center valve on your PTO pump, some are convertable from one to the other with a special plug.)The return from the valve will go to the hyd filter housing. Either drill and tap the stock housing or buy the special housing from JD.(Last I knew it was $60, no doubt more now) Hope this helps.

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Garry Cottrell

11-12-2006 14:47:45




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to low budget, 11-12-2006 11:18:14  
This is a great help.I'm keeping all the info I can gather hoping to get this way hooked up.ANY help will be appreciated.Thanks...Garry



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buickanddeere

11-12-2006 18:46:07




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-12-2006 14:47:45  
Low budget has this one figured out. If you check the 1530 parts list on the Deere web site. The hydraulic system is illustrated and numbered six ways to Sunday. Certainly use the tractors on board hydraulics. Some after market cobbled up abomination is going to work and look like cr*p. The hydraulics were pretty similar from the 20 through 55 series utility tractors. A quick stroll through a salvage yard will locate several hydraulic remotes, lines and valve that directly bolt on. These parts are common as dirt and cheap from parted out tractors.

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Garry Cottrell

11-12-2006 19:05:04




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to buickanddeere, 11-12-2006 18:46:07  
Thanks for the input,I am researching every possible way I can to get a professional factory look.The John Deere dealer told me all parts were discontinued and the only place to obtain them were salvage yards or aftermarket.We are limited to tractor parts in this area.Thanks again...Garry



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Logan in S.E. Texas

11-12-2006 01:21:15




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-11-2006 19:59:04  
Garry,
just for safety's sake double check you hydro pumps specs to make sure it can handle higher RPM's of say what a bush hog would require. Would hate to see you damage pump or hurt somebody.



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Garry Cottrell

11-12-2006 04:30:02




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Logan in S.E. Texas, 11-12-2006 01:21:15  
The pump will operate at 540 rpm to 600 rpm.I think the 540 Rpm when the tractor engine is running at 1200 rpm.You make a very good point,I had never considered that.The pump said never exceed 600 RPM's.I may have to use a lot of quick disconnects and remove pump on some equip not requiring hydraulics.The PTO pump was 400.00 vs.$1500. at John Deere to put the remotes on my tractor.Thanks for the help...Garry

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Dachshund

11-11-2006 20:17:38




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-11-2006 19:59:04  
TSC used to sell the extensions. I bought one there 3-4 years ago.



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Garry Cottrell

11-11-2006 20:47:06




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Dachshund, 11-11-2006 20:17:38  
Thanks Dachshund,I'll also check with them as soon as possible.This is very helpful...Garry



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Bob

11-11-2006 20:04:08




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-11-2006 19:59:04  
Call Baum Hydraulics in Omaha @ 800-228-9288.

They have the extension shafts that will attach to the tractor's PTO shaft and pass through the pump, extending a standard PTO shaft length out beyond the pump.

They are a wholesale distributor, and MAY not sell direct to you, but SHOULD be willing and able to direct you to one of their resellers in your area, if necessary.)



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Garry Cottrell

11-11-2006 20:12:12




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Bob, 11-11-2006 20:04:08  
Thank You so much.I will call them first thing when they open monday to locate a dealer.I was hoping for something like this so I could avoid any type gearing box or machine shop work.I'll let you know how I come out.This info really means alot to me.Thanks Again...Garry



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RAW in IA

11-12-2006 02:43:16




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-11-2006 20:12:12  
Oe problem you will run into if you extend your PTOshaft is when turniong with pul type equipment. It will not be at the standard position in relation to the drawbar and could over extend the pto shaft of the implement.



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Garry Cottrell

11-12-2006 04:17:31




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 Re: PTO extended through Hydraulic pump in reply to RAW in IA, 11-12-2006 02:43:16  
I've thought about that and could very well be a problem on my corn picker or hay roller.I'm hoping for an idea to get a shaft as short as possible and maybe this will not be an issue.Thanks for mentioning that.You are correct...Garry



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RickB

11-12-2006 09:06:08




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 Suggestion in reply to Garry Cottrell, 11-12-2006 04:17:31  
If you don't maintain 16" from the hitch pin hole in the tractor drawbar to the end of whatever PTO shaft extension you use, you are asking for trouble with PTO driven equipment. Take the $400 for the pump plus whatever else you have to spend on the setup you are considering and tap into the pressure line from the main hydraulic pump. Do this BEYOND the steering priority valve and before the rockshaft valve. Add a closed-center spool valve and couplers, preferably a two spool valve at least. Return the oil into the hydraulic filter cover for an ideal installation. Your 1530's hydraulic pump will flow more oil at less engine RPM than the gear pump you are considering.

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Garry Cottrell

11-12-2006 09:46:07




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 Re: Suggestion in reply to RickB, 11-12-2006 09:06:08  
Thanks alot,I printed this info because this is what I originally wanted to do but no one could tell me how.Check back this question after I look over the tractor and if I have more questions I'll post them and you probably can answer them for me.I've already purchased the pump so I'll use it as is on another tractor to run a log splitter or something.It is brand new I could return it but I will lose a lot on shipping so I will probably keep it.Thanks Again...Garry

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