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no till or conventional

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Youngfarmhand

11-13-2006 16:29:38




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The farm I worked on usually no tilled everything.
Deep ripped been stubble in the fall, then in spring no tilled soybeans and corn. This is in ohio if anybody was wandering. I always wandered if constant no tilling will lead to heavy soil compaction, which would cause yields to suffer. Since the guy I worked for deep ripped bean stubble I think it stopped compaction. However I've never really been around any mold board plowing but some chisel plowing. So, what do you guys think ablut no-till vs conventional. My personal theory is run chisel plow and disc and rollers, run a year of corn, no till a year of beans, no till wheat in bean stubble start over.

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Bob Farrell

11-14-2006 07:41:47




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 Re: no till or conventional in reply to Youngfarmhand, 11-13-2006 16:29:38  
There is a book titled "plowman's folly" by Edward H Faulkner, copyright, 1943, by the University of Oklahoma Press Publishing Division of the University.
The first paragraph of the book says: "Breifly, this book sets out to show that the moldboard plow which is in use on farms throughout the civilized world, is the least satisfactory implement for the preparation of land for the production of crops". You can see where the author is going from there.
The publishers for the University are 'Grosset & Dunlap", New York. Should be in your local library. Makes very good reading and sense. Let me know what you think. Bob Farrell

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jddriver

11-13-2006 19:03:37




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 Re: no till or conventional in reply to Youngfarmhand, 11-13-2006 16:29:38  
As everyone here knows I love no-till.My yeilds have been going upsince we started 17 years ago.True chemical cost have went up but fuel has been cut by 75% and fertil has also been reduced with no reduction in yeilds.That being said either commit to 100% no-till or stay conventional,the two dont mix.The most important thing you can get is a GOOD NO_TILL planter.I think Kinze is better than JD.Good row cleaners 13 wave wavy coulters and extremely heavy down pressure springs with enough weight on planter frame to make planter stay in ground.Stay off of ground when wet.I hope I never have to go back to conventional tillage.It is a lot afun running those big tractors in the feild but man is it exspensive.jmtcw

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vally farm

11-13-2006 18:48:28




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 Re: no till or conventional in reply to Youngfarmhand, 11-13-2006 16:29:38  
Not claiming to be an expert or anything, but farmers have been turning the soil for thousands of years with great sucess. No-till tends to leave a lot of trash on top of the soil, which is good as far as erosion control goes, but if you look at the amount of chemicals now used to supress things, plus it seems a new wilt, mold, or rust shows up almost every year since no-till took over, I'd think twice about the system. Every experienced gardener knows that he has to clean up the old, dead debris in the fall, or the 'meaters, mellons, and taters will suffer greatly due to the growth of viruses and bugs. I don't know of any "organic" farmers that don't plow and rotate crops. This is just my thoughts, no facts involved. Mike

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skip33652

11-14-2006 05:01:22




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 Re: no till or conventional in reply to vally farm, 11-13-2006 18:48:28  
I know there are many different ways to farm but farmers have not really been turning the soil for thousands of years. in fact until the idustrial revolution and the invention of a decent plow most of agriculture was similar to no till or reduced till that we have today. look at the american indian and the wat they planted corn , take a stick poke a couple holes in the ground put in seed corn in one and a fish in the other. keep it sort of weed free and imagine that corn. okay don't like that look at how most of the rice is grown in the world yet today. flood an area with water to drown most of the weed s hand plant rice . there are plenty of other examples. also one must consider that up until the late 1800's very little of the total acres in the good ol usa was farmed now almost every acre that can be farmed will be and subject to erosion. My ancestors helped settle this little area in 1924 and in only 70 years lost nearly half of topsoil. obviously cannot continue at that rate.

as far as an answer to the real question that was posted modern ag will continue to cut man hour costs into the future. every time that an operation can be ommited profit can be transferd to the owner. If I were to go back to the way we used to farm before no-till I would need an additional labor force( can't find a good hired man or woman at any price it seems) as well as an aditional $500,000 in equipment

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Old Pokey

11-13-2006 17:14:36




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 Ya wanna stir some dust???................ in reply to Youngfarmhand, 11-13-2006 16:29:38  
go here and ask that question. Usually there is a pretty good turn out for the conversation too. Just be prepared for possibly some pretty excited replies.:-) Not allways, but sometimes, if there's a lot of folks done with harvest, they'll be sitting by the puter wanting to answer questions.

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Youngfarmhand

11-13-2006 18:46:42




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 Re: Ya wanna stir some dust???................ in reply to Old Pokey, 11-13-2006 17:14:36  
Your right they do get excited



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Youngfarmhand

11-13-2006 16:43:12




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 Re: no till or conventional in reply to Youngfarmhand, 11-13-2006 16:29:38  
I think I kinda made an error there in my theory, their shold be a subsoiler in there somewhere



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Bill(Wis)

11-13-2006 19:32:15




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 Re: no till or conventional in reply to Youngfarmhand, 11-13-2006 16:43:12  
When you said "deep ripping" I thought maybe you were talking about subsoiling. I have a Brillion subsoiler that is also described, in Brillion literature, as a "chisel plow". If you have standing water problems you have compaction and should do something about it. Have you heard of Ray Rawson? Lots of stuff on the internet about his methods and they do work on his ground (14,000 acres) in Michigan. "Vertical tillage" is the term.

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Josh in Pa

11-13-2006 16:33:43




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 Re: no till or conventional in reply to Youngfarmhand, 11-13-2006 16:29:38  
I'm a weekend farmer, do about 40 acres of hay and crops. I mostly plow because i don't have a no-till drill. However I have been no-tilling some with a rented drill. I had one field that I no-tilled for about 3 years, and then plowed it this fall. I thought it would be easy plowing, but it plowed up in chunks. I think it was from no-till with a combine running on it every year.
Josh



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