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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OUT Of Towner stay OUT!

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NO tools

11-22-2006 16:21:04




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I have UT MOST respect for the law officals during holiday season.BUT no disrespect?? where is the common sense of some officer's the young one's?.Hauling 966 farmall I WAS OUT OF state (town police) IS suspicious (no left turn or brake light)
NEED to see driver lis--truck--trailer--regsi---have you got insurance?
(officer)DO you have any ideal why i stop you?
NO sir.
YOU don't have no lights on left corner of trailer.? IS that right?
(O) Let me CK the REGSI i be right back.
3to4 minutes OK----- -----But I have a ploblem with your load rigging.
(ME) WHY's that i have the chains (X--ED) over the axles thats about as good as i can do.
(OFFICER) well thats not the problem sir!the ploblem is the BINDERS.
(WHAT) the binders?
YES you see the handle have silver weld on them!
(THATS) a I-D marker.
THAT IS A MODIFICATION TO THE RIGGING!!!!!
RRRRR rrrrr rrmmmmm old truck and trailer pass'es by hauling a old van no lights---TRAILER tags almost no trailer????? .
(ME) DID ANYONE GET HURT IN THAT WRECK?
WHAT WRECK!
THAT one just went past here!
NAW he LIVES just out the road he run a salvage yard.
(ME) I think we beter just leave them rigging binders ALONE!?
THEY are MODIFIED GET THEM OFF THERE!!.
(ME) BUDDY I DON'T QUIT understand the ploblem WHY IN THE H-----LLLLL LLLLL DON't you just WRITE the DANG'ED ticket OR take ME IN??.

GUYS YOU TELL ME?
I HAVE ALLREADY BEEN INSULTED??
THANKS BILL

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tcwinkc

11-25-2006 00:20:49




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
About two months ago I moved my buddys 40' gooseneck out to a jobsite with my 99 f350 dually. I have 16,000 plates and CDL.When stopped he said the tags were not on trailer. I had registration and proof that it had tags,buddy takes them off as trailer is not used much yet(three months old). DOT officer begans hassling me over the fact of whether I was a for hire driver or helping out a friend,I asked what difference that would make as I was properly liscensed to pull an empty trailer.He directed me to pull off on a side road and began the inspection.Yes just as if I were driving a 90,000 pound over the road truck,lights,brakes,steering suspension,he even scaled all axles.I am disabled and sat in the truck and took a nap.When finished he told me if he saw me again without the plate on he would right me a ticket.Sure seems like a lot of work for a ten dollar fine.I showed him respect neverthless.It made me wonder though what his motivation was, maybe he doesnt like Ford trucks??

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Randy as in Randy-IA

11-23-2006 22:31:10




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
The mistake I see some people make in regard to chains is not using chains rated as load binding chains . The so called " log " chain bought at the TSC or handyman hardware is an example . The chain has to be stamped to be a rated load binding chain along with the hooks on the end . We use 3/8" graded chain ( stamped G8 ) but reduce their rating to 5,000 lbs each instead of 6,000lbs or so . The tie downs are only as good as the weakest part . For a 10,000lb load two 5,000lb chains probably won't cut it with the DOT . The Iowa law also states the load be bound down every ten feet . That doesn't work with most equipment so few haulers comply with this one . I've had 36,000lb concrete bridge beams show up at job sites with four 5/16" chains holding them down . That's about 15,000 - 20,000lb of holding force on a 36,000lb load . I don't go overboard either with binding things down like I should . My job requires moving a lot of materials of unknown weight such as bridge demo . You gotta do it the best you can and use a LOT of common sense . Such as , most vehicles will , with the brakes working correctly and close to the GVW , stop faster than they will accelerate so if you don't want the load in your back you take that into account . I've rambled enough and this is just my 2 cents . Take care ...Randy

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1936

11-23-2006 05:42:06




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
This year in Iowa the farmers are now under full DOT regs on the road. A lot of check book pain. Many truck and trailers will fall under CLD regulations. Tires and weight are the hot points of tickets. That 27,000 pound adds up fast. A ton truck and double axle trailer loaded will push it into the CLD bracket. This adds the health card and inspection of the quipment and etc. So you expo types brush up on the latest Iowa DOT laws.

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Hard Knocks

11-23-2006 04:36:53




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
No doubt there are some pain in neck DOT inspectors around but you can avoid 95% of your problems by having the lights working,good tires and obeying the speed limit.Last time I was pulled over by the DOT was so the officer could ask if I knew anyone with parts for an AC WD45,fellow always waves when he sees me now so they ain't all bad.



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MI mark

11-23-2006 03:55:48




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
not to rile the waters but there are new cargo securement laws as of 2002 that require that you have a 4 point tie down on equipment like a dozer the 4 corners and the blade seperately . another words 4 binders and 4 chains on tractors I put the chain through the drawbar and then hook each end to the trailer then use the middle of the chain to fasten with the binder (boomer) for the guys out west and then tighten it up. I like 2 snap binders on one end and 2 ratchets on the other end that gets the bounce out by tightening the snap binders first. I do this for a living .I carry 18 binders and about as many chains and straps on the truck .just fyi thanks .

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RickB

11-23-2006 03:19:20




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 Here's the lesson in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
Don't run with inoperative lighting.



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tw

11-22-2006 23:30:56




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
You are real lucky you didn't come through here. The local cop is one of three state certified dot inspectors. Your truck & trailer would have never left the town without lots of work or a hefty tow bill. Our guy does not discriminate, he gets locals as well as out of towners. The local news even did a story on him Tuesday & titled it The guy truckers hate to see. Again you should feel VERY lucky.

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Bill in Ohio

11-22-2006 18:54:22




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
GUILTY!
Aint we all?
Thats the reason for all the fine print in the law books, so nobody goes home emptyhanded. And your pocket a bit emptier, too [mainly].
And they talk to ya like you are an idiot, hoping it encourages you to give them something else to ticket.
Glad you didnt get the room and board out of that.



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Allan In NE

11-22-2006 18:12:12




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
And he didn't say one darned word of congratulations about that 966?

That's blasphemies. I'd a slapped him silly. The man for sure needs therapy. :>)

Allan



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NO tools

11-22-2006 18:46:22




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to Allan In NE, 11-22-2006 18:12:12  
YOU know what allan?
I Honestly don't think the young man even knew what the 966 was?

He sure didn't notice it was still running?????

I bet if ole red 966 had started growling at him he'd put the maze to him.
I would have a ticket? THERAPY??? YES!! one of us would have needed therapy
cause you don't kick red.red don't hide behind no uniform or badge he's just common business.
THANKS BILL

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B-maniac

11-22-2006 18:01:51




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
Sounds like he has a brother in the equipment hauling bussiness who's a little low on work at the time. Surprised he didn't give you his bussiness card. Maybe ligit , but V E R Y * N A L !!



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NC Wayne

11-22-2006 17:53:58




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
Sounds like another case of a man letting the uniform go to his head in turn causing a huge power trip....I'd suggest getting a federal manual as well as checking the state laws on what is considered a "modification" to a "rigging device" before I'd pay that ticket. Usually the regulations are written in such broad terms that they leave way too much thought to the average officer that wouldn't know how what a load binder was or how to properly dog anything down if it wasn't in picture form in front of him.

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Atoz

11-22-2006 17:33:53




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
Whenever a cop pulls you over and askes if you know why you were stopped, AWAYS, AWAYS, A-W-A-Y-S say "no, sir".

If you are pulled over while you were knowingly speeding 60 mph in a 35 mph zone and the cop asks if you know why he pulled you over, just say "no, sir".

Never, ever admit guilt. Never even utter the word "yes".



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rgvtx

11-22-2006 19:21:27




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to Atoz, 11-22-2006 17:33:53  
{{{Never, ever admit guilt. Never even utter the word "yes".)))

Officer: Son, you got insurance on this rig?
Driver: No sir!

Uhhhhh hhh Ohhhhh hhhhh hh..... ...
third party image



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Atoz

11-23-2006 04:33:10




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to rgvtx, 11-22-2006 19:21:27  
Insurance of course, is required.

What I'm talking about here is that you must never admit you knew what you were doing wrong. Even if you have a pretty good idea why you were stopped. When asked, aways respectfully say "no, sir".

That way you may only get a warning. But if you do get a ticket because you admited that you know why you were pulled over, it's your own fault since you have basicly told the cop that you are guilty on the spot, and you know full well that you deserve a ticket. Later, if you go to traffic court, the judge will look at it the same way.

Think "IRS audit".

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John S-B

11-22-2006 18:47:49




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to Atoz, 11-22-2006 17:33:53  
I've always told the truth when stopped, always worked for me. I got stopped twice in about a month by the same state trooper. First time I was ten over and knew it. Second time I did'nt realize I was over. No ticket either time. OK, I did have a IAFF sticker in the window. But every other time I've dealt with cops I've been courteous and truthful and never had problems. Had a couple of tickets when I was young but they were justified.

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kyhayman

11-22-2006 18:15:07




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to Atoz, 11-22-2006 17:33:53  
I'm with you. Every time I'e been stopped I have always said, I have no idea, no sir, etc. The few times I've gotten a ticket I've always made an appointment with the County Attorney, presented my case as to why I thought I wasnt guilty. Asked him if he intended to prosecute to go ahead and waive it over to the trial docket for jury trial. If I have to pay court costs I want my money's worth. Never yet had one they didnt kick out before.

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kyhayman

11-22-2006 16:40:31




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 16:21:04  
Dare I ask where you were and did you get a ticket?



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NO tools

11-22-2006 18:10:04




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to kyhayman, 11-22-2006 16:40:31  
NO Kyhayman NO ticket but sorry about haveing to tell the st (KY).
I think the guy with me had some pull he lives in the area.
OR maybe he seen i JUST didn't care??
BILL



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Jeff Oliver

11-23-2006 18:08:06




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 18:10:04  
In Ky? Good thing you had chains instead of straps as you would have gotten a ticket for sure. I live right below the state line in Tn. and have a friend who lives in Ky and hauls tractors all he time. trooper stopped him and told him in no uncertain terms that he had better have chains next time period no matter how small the tractor.

I think the major part of this story though is that while the officer was giving you a hard time the local guys is blatently disobeying the law and the officer just didn"t really seem to care. Fair is fair in my book but reality isn"t like that. Heck I was told one time that you couldn"t use ratchet boomers and had to use the others. I can"t figure it out....

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kyhayman

11-22-2006 18:28:13




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to NO tools, 11-22-2006 18:10:04  
Thats why I asked. Some of the local cops around here make minimum wage, even after years on the force. Not exactly the best way to hire the cream of the crop.

Those out of state plates..... .. Sorry about your bad experience.



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Billy NY

11-22-2006 17:05:54




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 Re: OUT Of Towner stay OUT! in reply to kyhayman, 11-22-2006 16:40:31  
To me, the officers assessment and judgement of the surface welds ( that is what they were correct ? ) I would think that there must be something written in a law somewhere, where it states, modifications are unaceptable, meaning the rigging is straight from a manufacturer that has designed, engineered and certified the rigging, (say like a load binder)to comply to some standard, accepted by D.O.T. even if a binder handle was severed, re-attached with weld, and I assume that is what they really don't like, something grossly modified, they give you barracks justice and what's good for one is good for all modifications no matter how minor they are.

I assume on as ratchet binder, a handle failing would have no effect, but the other type, that flops over, once locked, and the chain stays tight ( which is hard to do with a pneumatic, air filled tire machine like a tractor or a loader ) but if it slackens up, I guess maybe that is why the handle is considered to be dangerous if modified.

Seems like a judgment call, metalurgically speaking I assume it's a similar call like why they don't like field cutting structural steel members or connections with a torch due on some jobs I've worked on, written clearly in the specfications due to embrittlement or something.

I mean, in your instance, this sounds ridiculous, maybe I'm completely wrong though.

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Billy NY

11-22-2006 17:37:17




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 Unfinished sentence in reply to Billy NY, 11-22-2006 17:05:54  
Hmmm, forgot to complete that sentence, talk about scatter-brain !

To me, the officers assessment and judgement of the surface welds, may ( key word "may" ) have something to be desired, on the surface, seems petty.



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Larry NE IL

11-22-2006 20:57:57




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 Re: Unfinished sentence in reply to Billy NY, 11-22-2006 17:37:17  
I feel for ya, but talk to anyone who runs trucks for a living can tell you some real stories! I had a local cop pull over my operator on a CAT 613 elevator scraper. I was following with my blinkers on, but the machine is street legal and all lights worked. He darned near ran me in the ditch trying to get my operators attention. Then he pulled him into a gas station!! I said if there was any damage to the drive there would be hell to pay. That cop got out, looked that scraper over real good and came back with what he thought was the weight...it was the serial number
Woild have weighed over a million pounds with that number. After I put him on the phone with the local Cat dealer, he let us go!

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Billy NY

11-23-2006 10:18:16




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 Re: Unfinished sentence in reply to Larry NE IL, 11-22-2006 20:57:57  
Between 15 - 20 years ago, I spent a lot of my youth behind the wheel of tractor trailers, 4 years hauling lumber, then into the site work field, hauling the big stuff on lowboy's, D8K's, D8N's 627 scrapers, 235 excavators and everything in between. Did the triaxle dump thing too, hauling gravel, crushed stone, asphalt etc.

When I think about all the times I was pulled over, stopped, or had to deal with law enforcement, it was one of the motivating factors to get out from behind the wheel. I was never so glad to get off the road and be on a piece of equipment on a jobsite. Some may think it's easy behind the wheel, no hard work required, but that's b.s. as many people already know. You're in that cab for many hours at a time, better bring your lunch, and don't stop to take it, you might not get that extra or last load in if you do, so it can be ball$ to the wall depending on who you work for. Then you have the stress of driving a truck with a large monkey on your back ( whatever it is you are hauling ) dealing with others on the road, and not to mention keeping tabs on whatever service or repair work needs to be done and making sure the company does it. What about not knowing how much you weigh when getting loaded at a jobsite ? Many what if's here. I've worked for some who would tell you to drive it or be fired even if the trucks needs something, some people used to really operate a lot of junk on the road, and a lot of drivers put up with it to get a paycheck. This paints a picture of the scenario behind the wheel.

Some of the law's officers were very professional and courteous, but others were case hardened jerks, and what I mean by that, is that they probably would have been the same no matter what career they chose, so the empowement of the badge is just a catalyst that increases the level of un-professionalism. Things like what started this thread and beyond, probably occur everyday. Although I may sound biased, thinking about it now ( and we've had discussions before ) you do have to look at both sides of things, I mean there used to be a lot of junk on the road, with less than desirable people putting them there, and some drivers also have a lot to be desired, I think you stand a much better chance if you provide late model equipment or keep the older stuff in excellent condition. Personal appearance and attitude also helps, but the whole thing really is a tough racket on both sides, when one side does not do their part, you get what was mentioned above, someone is led to believe they were singled out for some inane and petty item, based on what appears to be poor judgment. The other side of it is, that the law has to do their job to keep unsafe things off the road, and it's always been an advesarial situation, it really is a shame that it is like this.

I have a friend who runs a transportation business, shuttle and event service for people, corporations etc. 16,000 lb vans are what he uses and he buys them new, and keeps a very modern fleet of vehicles in great shape, and even when brand new, d.o.t. has really given him a lot of crap, and it's because of the person behind the badge, in this case an inspector that places the d.o.t. inspection sticker on the vehicle. They had to go over his head and call his superiors, to get some cooperation, the guy was really hammering him. He runs a first class business, has invested a lot of money in the equipment and the drivers, whom all have been there since the business started several years ago. His drivers are sharp in appearance and have good manners. Same drivers are courteous and take good care of the late model equipment, he does his part, yet was getting treated like a slumlord. But being a professional, they finally found a way to get things resolved and will cooperate 100% in a non confrontational manner, as much as possible, how much more can the law ask of someone who takes pride in their business and has spared no expense to do so? They seem to also forget, he has to make a buck too, keeping the vans busy, also pay his drivers a good wage with benefits. He'll have 20 drivers by this time next year, so he's helped the community by providing good jobs and a service as well. In this case it's working out, but for awhile, beacuse of one miserable person, all the money invested and cooperation was not worth one dime it seemed.

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730VIRGIL

11-22-2006 21:25:40




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 Re: Unfinished sentence in reply to Larry NE IL, 11-22-2006 20:57:57  
why is it seems like to be cop you have no common sense and are dumb azz to boot or a first class brick . i know not all cops are like this friend of my is cop . he was farmer first as far as i know he is good cop won't go out of his way to act like a dumb azz .



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135 Fan

11-22-2006 22:47:38




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 Re: Unfinished sentence in reply to 730VIRGIL, 11-22-2006 21:25:40  
It's good they do checks. There are some really bad trailers on the road. Like the one the junk collector had. On the other hand, I think a lot of the time they are just justifying their job. I got pulled over once in my Hino dump truck. The cop spent 20 minutes trying to find something wrong. Even had me turn the steering wheel back and forth real slow to check for play. Totally ignored the safety sticker on the window that I didn't even require! The worst was when I was bringing my tractor back home on my bobcat trailer. I got pulled over by the commercial vehicle inspectors. The first one asked for all my documents, while the other guy was walking around and telling me how good everything was. Then the first cop came back and gave a $150 ticket because I didn't have GVW numbers on the side of my truck. In the past they would have gave you 24 hours to comply. A bunch of people later told me I should have fought it because they never weighed the tractor on the trailer. The guy was strictly guessing and it was only a 135! My trailer has 7000 lb. axles. I lost a lot of respect for them after that considering I had a safe unit. There is a lot of junk on the road that is just an accident waiting to happen. Dave

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135 Fan

11-22-2006 22:45:19




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 Re: Unfinished sentence in reply to 730VIRGIL, 11-22-2006 21:25:40  
It's good they do checks. There are some really bad trailers on the road. Like the one the junk collector had. On the other hand, I think a lot of the time they are just justifying their job. I got pulled over once in my Hino dump truck. The cop spent 20 minutes trying to find something wrong. Even had me turn the steering wheel back and forth real slow to check for play. Totally ignored the safety sticker on the window that I didn't even require! The worst was when I was bringing my tractor back home on my bobcat trailer. I got pulled over by the commercial vehicle inspectors. The first one asked for all my documents, while the other guy was walking around and telling how good everything was. Then the first cop came back and gave a $150 ticket because I didn't have GVW numbers on the side of my truck. In the past they would have gave you 24 hours to comply. A bunch of people later told me I should have fought it because they never weighed the tractor on the trailer. The guy was strictly guessing and it was only a 135! My trailer has 7000 lb. axles. I lost a lot of respect for them after that considering I had a safe unit. There is a lot of junk on the road that is just an accident waiting to happen. Dave

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