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O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts

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Kevin (FL)

12-06-2006 20:47:59

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OK guys, this morning our '95 Suburban diesel wouldn't start. Besides all the times we had trouble shortly after we got it, this is the first time it hasn't started right up. Outside temp was about 40 degrees. I've verified that the lift pump is working, changed the filter and bled off the air. Also drained the filter housing too. Still no start up though. So, I figure it can only be one of three things--1) injection pump failure 2) faulty glow plug relay or 3) faulty stop solenoid. I figure I'll crack an injector line tomorrow to see if the pump is putting out any pressure. Not sure if the glow plug system would cause the 6.5 not to start up but I do know our 2001 Ford power stroke wouldn't crank in Idaho Falls one cold winter morning when the glow plugs failed to work--but that time the exhaust was putting out tons of white smoke. This time, I'm not seeing any smoke while cranking...if anyone has any suggestions or words of wisdom from similar experience, please pass them on. I'm hoping maybe it's not the injection pump, as with Christmas coming up we don't need a large expense!

Thanks to all for any advice offered.

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B. Jones

12-07-2006 08:27:32

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to Kevin (FL), 12-06-2006 20:47:59

A friend of mine brought over his 6.5 about 2 weeks ago and I wired up a push button switch for his glow plugs. Even at 55 or 60 degrees it would not even try to start. If I held down on the glow plug push button for even 4 or 5 seconds it would start right up. I'm glad you got it going. I just wanted everyone to know that the glow plugs are very important even at fairly warm temperatures.

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Bob

12-07-2006 08:43:25

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to B. Jones, 12-07-2006 08:27:32

Please tell me you installed "dual coil" self-regulating glowplugs along with the manual switch! The original GP's were rated about 9 Volts, and QUICKLY overheat and fail without automatic control.

If a manual switch is used with the original GP's, the first time the owner (or someone else just trying to help) holds in the manual switch for MORE than about 8 or 10 seconds, the original GP's will overheat, swell up, and likely soon break off and become slammed into the piston tops.

Or, when they try to remove the burned out GP's, the tip will break of and remain jammed in the head.

The 6.5's had a GOOD glow control system. If it had problems, why not repair it, instead of asking for trouble with the manual control???

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hilario fernandez

12-07-2006 08:25:02

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to Kevin (FL), 12-06-2006 20:47:59

What is the shut off solenoid? Where is it located?

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Bob

12-07-2006 08:54:28

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to hilario fernandez, 12-07-2006 08:25:02

The shutdown solenoid closes off fuel to the injection pump when the key is turned "OFF", causing shutdown.

Of course the other solenoid, the FUEL SOLENOID also ceases to be "triggered" with the key "OFF", also. The fuel solenoid is driven by the PMD, which commands the FUEL SOLENOID CLOSED for the start of EACH AND EVERY injection cycle, and allows it to open when the desired amount of fuel has been injected... controlled by the desired fuel rate, as determined by the powertrain 'puter.

So, the SHUTDOWN SOLENOID opens and closes only as the key is switched "ON" and "OFF", and the FUEL SOLENOID cycles at EVERY injection event, 4000 times a minute for every 1000 engine RPM's.

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IBorange in TX

12-07-2006 08:09:37

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to Kevin (FL), 12-06-2006 20:47:59

My suggestion is this: take a cup of room temp water and slowly pour over the inj...pump, then crank engine. If it cranks, the you have a problem in the inj pump. The diesel that you buy now is very dry, need to add an oil agent to the tank. BTDT, with a Ford 7.3. I use a squirt of Lucas oil to the tank on each fill up. So far, it cranks even in the cold or after sitting for a couple of weeks. HTH
Good Luck..... ..

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Kevin (FL)

12-07-2006 07:05:34

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6.5 diesel update-good news!! in reply to Kevin (FL), 12-06-2006 20:47:59

Thanks for all the replies. Last night (about midnight) I got the engine started. Here's what I think happened or at least this is my theory:

The fuel filter was partially clogged due to a trashy load of fuel. This starved the injection pump of fuel. Also, I drained the housing and it did have a small amount of water. When we tried to crank the engine yesterday morning there was no fuel in the injection pump (or enough air to cause a no-fuel-delivery situation). We just didn't "grind" on the starter long enough. Last night when I attempted to start it up, I did have to spin it over for a few seconds and then it started right up. Ran it for about 15 minutes and then shut it down and restarted it OK. This morning it started up like it always does--on the first revolution.

Thanks again for the suggestions--hopefully others can learn from our experiences.

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dab

12-07-2006 06:48:52

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to Kevin (FL), 12-06-2006 20:47:59

Go to ssdieselsupply.com. Walt is an expert on 6.5's. Solved all my problems with the truck. I wouldn't rule out glow plugs, even at 40 deg. Haad that problem with my truck and it would not start below 50, and when it did rattled and smoked white like crasy. Eash glow plug should give you 1.2 ohms of resistance. Check each plug. I had a relay go out and took my glow plugs with it.

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thejdman01

12-07-2006 04:45:41

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to Kevin (FL), 12-06-2006 20:47:59

Cracking the injector line is the first start.Either is the worst last thinkg to try as 6.5 heads and head gaskets arent too strogn to start with. If your suburban has decent compression w/o glow plugs you will get tons of white smoke and it should start after cranking on it for a few times (ie crank 15 seconds wait 30 crank 15 wait 30. doing that 3 times w/o glow plugs, it should start. Its likely a mpd module failure (black box on the side of the injection pump) maybe ebay maybe a junk yard one. they are notorious fo rhaving them go out and a pain. dieselplace.com (no www.) will have loads of infomration for yoiu probably about some tests you can run. ie waht pin should have what volatge on the pmd

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Tx Jim

12-07-2006 03:16:45

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to Kevin (FL), 12-06-2006 20:47:59

Does glow plug light in dash come with key. If so it's probably the pump modual driver on pump. Go to Dieselpage dot com and you'll find alot of info on a 6.5L, also Heath diesel. Tx Jim

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Everett Mi

12-06-2006 21:58:12

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to Kevin (FL), 12-06-2006 20:47:59

Hello Kevin;
Not an expert at any thing but we have a bunch of those at work. We have replaced a few stop solnoids. have replaced a lot of glow plugs. Many fuel pumps. Most of the time when the fuel pump goes bad it will shut off while running. The glow plugs are not hard to check with a test light. The glow plug solnoid is at the back of the engine, not hard to check with a test light either. I have used a small whiff of starting fluid on them also. I have also used propane, but it will not fire on propane if it is not getting fuel. Have someone turn on the key while holding on to the stop solnoid you should feel it turn on if itis good. If I can find your phone # I will call you in the morning. My #313 218 0461. take care--Everett

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Kevin (FL)

12-07-2006 07:07:08

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to Everett Mi, 12-06-2006 21:58:12

Everett--Good to hear from you. I'll call this morning.

Kevin

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huntingreen

12-06-2006 21:00:28

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to Kevin (FL), 12-06-2006 20:47:59

don't know a whole lot about them but don't see how the shut off solenoid could keep it from starting. does it have a block heater. if so i would plug it up and let it warm the engine up. if engine starts then I would check the glo plug system.

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Bob

12-07-2006 04:37:33

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to huntingreen, 12-06-2006 21:00:28

The shutoff solenoid HAS to open, by electicity, before it can start.

Darned right, a failed shutdown solenoid would cause a "no-start".

Rare, yes, but if the shutdown solenoid fails, you're not going anywhere!

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huntingreen

12-07-2006 09:20:37

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Re: O.T.--Calling 6.5 diesel experts in reply to Bob, 12-07-2006 04:37:33

Thanks for the correction. I guess it would be a good safety factor not to have the engine start if you could not shut it off.

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