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need some advice

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Dave from MN

03-29-2007 05:29:52




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That 75 acres across the road from me that sold to a local multimillionaire is now being requested to become a development, out here in the middle of the country. This area was JUST changed to 4 residences per 40 acres last year, It IS agriculture zoned. I am really concerned what to do to ensure my future. I have a (1) 2 story poultry breeder barn and this development would be just a tad over a half mile from me(only cause I have a half mile driveway) and I am concerned about the developers or home buyers complaining and trying to shut me down in the near future. I only clean out once a year so a year long stink is not the case, but you know how some people are when they move out to the country. What can I do ? Is there anything I can start researching now, to protect myself. This barn has been here since '83 and the feedlot permit was granted. Maybe I have nothing to worry about, but then I cant just sit by and let a $500,000 investement be shut down. Please any advice on this is greatly appreiciated!

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GeneMO

03-30-2007 14:45:27




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Get in touch with your county Farm Bureau. Many state Farm Bureau's have been working on this very issue for years. Missouri FB is now in the process of having legislation drafted that will protect farmer from nuisance law suits. I know American Farm Bureau is working with the states. The Farm Bureaus have lots of legal resourses and political connections. Not sure about your particular state, but it wont hurt to check it out.


Gene

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Clint Youse MO

03-29-2007 17:55:33




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
I like the advice below some really good people on here the biggest problem is education of agriculture (people do not know where food comes from). We are in some debates now and some people went to the school the other day to teach kids about food and farming when the kids were asked where there food came from all of them said the grocery store. I own a hog farm in NE MO and have great nieghbors all of them have livestock except for two St Louis guys that 1031 exchanged some land only see them once a year. Right now we are in discussions in the county and with the state over HEalth ordinances. just keep fighting and do not rollover get every body that is against it and flood the county commision with letters and people at a meeting in your case don't bring up property tax as the new houses will generate more but make sure the commisioneers know the people that voted for them are against this item and remain civil every body will have more respect for you that away Good luck in your fight


Clint

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Pitch

03-29-2007 16:33:46




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Don"t you have a right to farm law? Here in NY in an agricultural district (MY whole county is one) we have what is known as the right to farm law. Basically says that anyone buying property in an Ag zone knows that they may be subjected to noise dust odors and such ,and as long as the farmer is abiding by "generally accepted agricultural practices", there is not a dang thing anyone can say about it. Call your local farm beareu and check to see if you have one.

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Janicholson

03-29-2007 15:48:26




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Great advice below. Our property was going to be taken for a national park expansion. The spray repellant was an Environmental Impact Study They are required, they can be costly if forced to be made, and must be paid for by the developer. Do homework on wetlands, species unique to the area, and raparian regulations. Find a University Environmental specialest (helpful to the max) JimN



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FreeRanger

03-29-2007 14:30:50




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 GET HOGS Immediately! in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Don't waste any time. Get hogs and fence them in along the road so everyone that goes by will see that you are farming. Then immediately apply for a building permit for a livestock building as close the property lines around your entire place. they don't have to be big or expensive buildings just have to be legal and then built right away. I think a nice three sided loafing shed used seasonally for shelter of pigs, cattle or sheep will keep the residencial housing units back from your property. This stops the developer from placing any housing on his land within X ammount of feet from an existing livestock building. CHECK YOUR ZONING RULES today!

This is my plan, it's working so far. The house to the North of me is going up for sale again soon. We are getting 2-4 piglets in April to raise for the summer. Clearly visiable from the house so the seller can't say they didn't know we are farming. I will keep them fifty feet back from the lot line but I checked with the county and I could put them right up to the property line which is fenced. In 2000, I built a small chicken coop 10' off the West line where I think a different property owner might want to build a house. That forces them to site the future housing 100' feet away acording to the county zoning. I hope to do the same on the South and East lot lines soon. I am thinking cheap three sided shed that doubles as hay storage and housing for my sheep. That makes it an livestock building forcing any new developments to keep back away from my property.

Ask your zoning folks. To get a building permit for a shed on an existing farm is very easy and inexpensive. The new developer will take years to get any of his plans thru the system. In the mean time you can build up your line of defense!

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tg in VA

03-29-2007 13:56:18




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Maybe you should clean out your barn monthly and start and maintain a pile of fresh poultry litter at the end of your driveway, or at least spread it monthly in that area. Begin now so it will be a regular "practice" before the zoning is changed.



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Midwest redneck

03-29-2007 13:28:45




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Most developers are a bunch of greedy bums. In my area 90% of the township is zoned 2.5 acre minimum, but a development company bought up a 50 acre or so parcel and put 90 homes on it, and 1/2 of it is swamp. (so much for the 2.5 acre minimum). You may be able to get the municipality to set up a tree cut ordinance or rural/ag ordinance. In my area if you want to cut more then 10 acres of trees you need a permit...doesnt mean much but a guy has right to do with his land as he pleases. I would get an attorney for starters to research.

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Arizona Bob

03-29-2007 12:19:32




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Here in Arizona we"ve had an ongoing problem of developers not telling buyers of feedlots and such. I"m not any kind of an authority on it but I believe there is now a requirement for disclosure. So, if I"m a wannabe cowboy and buy into a developement next to Paul"s Pee Pool, I get recourse against the developer.

You might check with your favorite real estate person to see if you have similar requirements.

Bob

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devel's advocate

03-29-2007 11:56:06




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 Beware of what you wish for in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Beware of what you wish for. It could cost you big. If developed ag land is back taxed 20 years for the different ag and development land assessments. No more development. Today's developers and corporate farms are exploiting the pollution exemptions, hand outs and tax breaks created for the low density family farm



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Billy NY

03-29-2007 11:11:09




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
It's a bitter subject, but the relentlessness of these developers is never ending. My town is a disaster, with all the proposed developments including a super walmart and we already have one that sits on top of an old farm, literally bulldozed away in '95, town was smart not letting them have what they wanted then, now they are back and the parking lot will be connected to the little league field parking lot it is so close.

Well, no sense in further describing the mayhem on the horizon here, it's d@mned depressing, and I always thought there has to be a better use for such good farm land than exploitation by developers, of aging farmers that have a firm tax choke hold on them or another unbalanced financial burden. Can't blame em for selling, can't blame someone wanting to buy, develop and profit, but some of these darned developers already sit on a fortune, when is enough enough ???

Get involved, don't sit back, get all the adjacent landowners invloved and see what they think, you might be able to petition the town for a super majority vote on the zoning change.

Research the criteria, local laws, state laws, pool some $$ if you can and use a qualified attorney to review same. See what environmental processes need to take place, like the initial draft scope environmental impact statement the developer must provide if mandated by law. You have to start this now, right at the conceptual stage, make that developer follow the rules and take em to task on anything you can, but do it with a smile and do it diplomatically, nothing personal, just business. Confrontation, heresay, arguing and bitterness won't do it and is a waste of time and energy.

I'm not much on committees and activist groups and all, but when faced with something like this, just to keep the township or municipality in check, there has to be representation, and the concerned citizens should be heard. I'm not sure how the laws are written there, someone has to review the developers plans and the laws besides the township, or lead agency that will approve such zoning changes and developments, independent of all parties involved, strictly for the citizens who are concerned.

I despise the people who occupy new places like these and take it upon themselves to try and isolate a farmer or a landowner on issues like odors, dust, noise etc., or what have you.

My new neighbor about 10 or so years ago called the state police on me while I was practicing markmanship with a rifle, way beyond the minimum legal distance from their annoying residence, yet I needed the police to investigate something we have been doing for 30 years, same mentality about dust, noise and odors.

People are not neighborly nor are they polite or considerate anymore, so you have to get involved when threatened with development regardless of how it goes, if you don't they will steamroll and bulldoze you into a corner, it's what they do.

It's sad, as I never say never, don't give up easily and have always been a tenacious opponent when pushed, but these developers are fueled by profit and many by greed on top of that, so many of them are already super wealthy, when is enough enough ? And as mentioned, it does not seem like they will be stopped in much of this country.

We have an activist group comprised of some very dedicated people who have worked hard and been diligent about presenting concerns to the town, go to the documents page, everyone of those places is ag land and the homepage photo is our wetland connected to our land. This group is criticized by many, those same people ought to be thankful for the hard work these people have done to keep the town and developers in check, aside from their busy lives.

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David Snipes

03-29-2007 10:30:34




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
You should research the state laws that might protect agruculture; attend any zoning meetings and voice your opposition or concerns. I would start gathering a file of anything that would prove your past practices in farming. I would consider keeping a very large pile of composting chicken manure right next to the road - just to let folks know what goes on there.



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Kajun

03-29-2007 09:22:34




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
In my parish(Louisiana) , I am very much involved in an effort to keep it rural. Here is what I put on the bottom of my email when I am addressing the issue:

Thus , in a new country, the woods and other objects, which in an old country would be maintained at great cost, are got rid of, simply with a view of “improving” as it is called.

“The Last of the Mohicans” James Fenimore Cooper (1850)

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PhilcaseinWPa

03-29-2007 09:38:24




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Kajun, 03-29-2007 09:22:34  
Very good. I have to find my copy of "Sand County Almanac" by Aldo Leopold.... a real ecologist & conservationist not an environmentalist.



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PhilcaseinWPa

03-29-2007 09:01:45




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
My farm in PA is in an ag security area. My township didn't have enough farm land to establish it's own ag security area but the supervisors agreed to go in with a neighboring township and I was able to join then. It pays to stay on good terms with the supervisors. My property is also enrolled in Clean and Green which is a preferential assessment of open land based on it's use rather than potential development value. In eastern PA the farm that bordered my MIL's former farm sold for over$1,000,000 (76 acres) more than 13000/acre. I thought that their entire township was no development and I know farm land sells high there even for farming but I can't believe some one could pay that much to farm it.

Phil

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Formerly PaMike

03-29-2007 09:14:49




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 Re: need some advice in reply to PhilcaseinWPa, 03-29-2007 09:01:45  
Yup, farm land in East Pa is crazy. My buddy has 35 acres with heifer barns and 2 chicken houses. He is selling out for 1 Million.



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JOHN HARMON

03-29-2007 17:16:31




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Formerly PaMike, 03-29-2007 09:14:49  
That is the problem which is unstoppable. "Your Buddy is Selling out". He has no honorable convictions to preserve the Land from Profit Mongering Developers.He is one of those Profit Mongers himself.He will spend the Money and when it is all gone what was accomplished? People Breed and have Children and the problem keeps growing."Sollent Green"is a reality. It is unstoppable.



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Cory A.

03-29-2007 08:32:10




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
what a world we live in today. the u.s. has always been big on agriculture and it seems like nobody cares anymore. It all comes down to money. what most city slickers don"t understand is that this is our life and our job. but as long as they have a little extra $$ in their pockets so they can buy their escalades and huge houses they don"t care about guys like us. everything is so corupt anymore its ridiculous. If it truly is a government by the people for the people that means we are in charge and I think its time to make some cut backs and changes.

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Farmeralidaho

03-29-2007 08:08:19




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
I know what you are saying, I went to our County Planning and Zoning meeting last night about a neighbor wanting to turn a 20 acre field into four - 5 acre Ranchetts, I stated my opinion about all subdivisions in general, over populating our local school (our high school is less than 350 students and nearly full as are the elementary and middle school) the impact on the road system, and the fact I feel like us who want to farm are going to be squeezed out of business. I am the 3rd generation owner of my farm (my dads side of family), and a mile down the road my sisters are the 4th generation owners of that farm on my mothers side of the family and I opperate that farm. I own 1/2 mile of Snake River frontage and my sisters farm has a little less than a 1/2 mile of river frontage. We are constantly bothered by people wanting to buy our river front property. The farm next to me is for sale for a huge amount of money, it also is on the river and I'm afraid it will be developed into many building lots (it has 19 rights of division on it now). City people seem to think they can move to the country, let their dogs run free to chase my cattle, they bit ch about the noise, dust, and smells that farms and cattle produce, they want peacefull country life with all the convence of the city. By the way the Zoning board recomended it to pass and were sending it to the commissioners for aproval.

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Walt Davies

03-29-2007 07:47:56




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Here in Oregon we have a right to farm law and a cap on taxes and farms get a lower tax rate I pay $600 on 37.5 acres worth around $550,000 you just need to get the laws changed to protect farming that's all.
Walt



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mjbrown

03-29-2007 07:31:40




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
I can't believe a farm state like Mn. doesn't have laws protecting ag operations. In NY we have ag districts. People building or buying a home in one have to be informed that there will be dust , smells , spraying , night work, ag vehicles on the roads etc. by the seller before the sale. Accepted ag practices are not to be interfered with and are protected. Cornell University pretty much determins what is an accepted practice. Accepted practices for CAFU (concentrated animal feeding units) operations require liquid manure to be gotten underground by injecting or tillage in a couple days to control stink and wash off by rain.

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georgeky

03-29-2007 07:04:24




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Dave, It has happened here just like you described. There was lots of Hog farms and poultry farms just west of here. After land surrounding those was developed by money grubbers and new 250,000 and up homes built the new neighbors started complaining about the stink of hogs and chickens. Before long as mentioned the taxes increased so much the farms were forced out. They call this progress, but I wonder how we can progress to the future with empty bellies. I for one am not so sure about times to come. I live 15 miles from town and the corn and hay fields here are quick becoming housing and no sign of letting up yet. I also wonder how young folks are suppose to get started farming if they choose to do so. With the price of land and operation cost it seems impossible to me for another generation to continue unless there is someone to set them up.

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Coloken

03-29-2007 06:59:28




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
All the other answers are true and good- BUT FACE IT, you are gone, sooner or later. That is the way of the world and you can only slow it down, not stop it. One year/10 years, but it will happen. Make your plans and get the most you can.



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mike a. tenn.

03-29-2007 06:08:31




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
they might not shut you down directly, but watch your property taxes, that's how they'll get you to sell out. they make it so you can't afford to keep your place anymore so you'll leave and they'll get to put up more clustler f...homes to get more revenue. i've seen it done over and over.



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Coldiron

03-29-2007 06:02:25




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Dave, I used to live N. of Seattle Wa and saw these Cluster Home Developments evolve there. I live in N. Idaho now and am seeing the same thing here. You can expect most county governments to allow cluster homes which generate a higher tax revenue base. The newcomers will eventually give you trouble in one way or another and you can expect trespass from many of them. Eventually you will win out when you sell your property to another grimey, slimey, developer for millions and move to a nicer location. They refer to it as progress. I have always wondered why they move so far out in the country to live with neighbors so dadburn close? Might as well live in town.

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Mike in Houston

03-29-2007 05:58:34




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Mike M hit the exact thing guys down here do a lot, put up signs. Development is inevitable down here around Houston so anyone wanting to stay around and keep farming, cattle, etc put up a big sign on their place with their "business name" on it in hopes that anyone looking to buy knows up front what's over there. There's a guy South of Houston I saw do that and that's been about 4 years ago. He feeds cattle there and him, cattle and sign are still there.
Hope everything works out for you and I wish you the best.
mee

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Mike M

03-29-2007 05:46:23




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
How about some of those portable signs and start advertising that you have a poultry farm and it WILL stink. This way anyone looking to buy that land for a house will think twice and can't say they weren't forwarned.



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MGTPa

03-29-2007 06:11:00




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Mike M, 03-29-2007 05:46:23  
Yep, I like the idea of a few signs along the road so new potential residents know they are in farm country. Maybe something like - "Fresh Country Air and You Thought The City Smelled Bad!" or maybe- "New Residents Get Discounted Chickens and Free Chicken Fertilizer!" Seriously, like the others have said, you better check out where and what the local farming rights and zoning laws are in your situation.

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Dandy Don

03-29-2007 11:42:43




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 Re: need some advice in reply to MGTPa, 03-29-2007 06:11:00  
I like the idea of the signs except then 10 or 12 people will worry you to death wanting to buy a 5 gallon bucket of chicken shift and everytime you get busy, here'll come another at the most in-opportune time. That's the ONLY reason I'd like to see fuel go to about $5.00 a gallon so a bunch of people would stay in town and ride public transportation.
Just my thoughts. Don



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Sean Feeney 2

03-29-2007 05:43:17




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Here in MA Farms and AG land is supported as #1, because of all the developing going on, the farms are like open space. Here in my town Falmouth Ma last week they went to the board to do a 40b project (its own zoning) up to 8 units per acre 280 homes on a golf course that was supposed to be deed restricted as open space. You are grandfathered until some smart a*s lawyer puts his .02 in.



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Clint Youse MO

03-29-2007 05:41:19




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
I do not know about MN but here in Missouri we have a right to farm law if you are there before the niehgbor they can not do any thing about your farm or farming practices If they get to put in the housing developement you might put up a wind break around your barn. Seems like around here if people can not see it they wont gripe I know some guys that built some hog buildings on out in the open and one in the timber. barns are about 2 miles apart and set a 1/4 mile off of blacktop the one in the open is always getting complaints but the one in the timber has never had a complaint. seems like out of site out of mind. Good luck I would also go ahead and talk to the county and see what they say.

Clint

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IaGary

03-29-2007 05:40:56




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:29:52  
Start talking to your local Government now.

Do you have county supervisers elected by the people. Use them!

They finally put a stop to random developments here in our county.

Talk to your planning and zoning department also.

They may already have laws to protect you.

Gary



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Dave from MN

03-29-2007 05:56:42




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 Re: need some advice in reply to IaGary, 03-29-2007 05:40:56  
I'm not sure but I think most of county board members are related or freinds or co investors with this big money family. Not sure. No one in the area wants it.



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BobG in VA

03-29-2007 06:37:13




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 Re: need some advice in reply to Dave from MN, 03-29-2007 05:56:42  
Since no one in your area wants the development (nor would I...), why don't YOU run for County Supervisor. It's the only way I know that your voice will be heard (above the developer's...). If not you, find someone else close by that feels the same. Usually, these positions are staggered so the whole board isn't replaced at once (unfortunately like our US Senate..). Check it out...BobG in VA



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Pitch

03-29-2007 16:51:34




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 Re: need some advice in reply to BobG in VA, 03-29-2007 06:37:13  
Here is a link to NY states section on this. Link



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