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development on development

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Dave from MN

04-16-2007 09:10:15

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OK , attended my 1st meeting to oppose this development across the road. Watched as 2 conditional use permits were granted unanimuosly despite opposition from neighbors and previous owners on 2 other cases. Skipping the details. This case was granted a conditional use permit for a "density transfer" on a 75 acre peice that is zoned 4/40 acres. We were told they want (8) 3-7 acre ranchettes with 2 "outlots"(some one explain to me what outlots are and whet they COULD become. Judging by the plan I see they want the 8(min) Ranchettes to be on what seams to be a 20-30 acre peice. My guess the next "phase"would be to do the same with the "outlots". I of course raised many questions and comments against it, receiving no answers, not even on the Enviromental Impact study requirments. Next meeting is next week and I want to be armed with facts and concerns about future impacts if this is allowed. They stated something about $300,000-$450,000 ranchettes, but said should have no impact on our taxes, Hah! Any one care to share your knowledge/experience on this type of situation.

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OH Boy

04-17-2007 09:30:41

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

Might want to file your own request for a permit to open a large feed lot or hog/poultry facility. Yeah I know you dont wanna do that but they (and especially their buyers) won't know that and this will scare those buyers off like crazy!

I have a 'neighbor' (hes a few miles down the road from me) who had a golf course built across the road from him, totally surrounded with 1-2 acre 'country' lots. He put a BIG sign up along the road that says somemthing like 'This farm houses 5000 head of hogs and they create over 200 Million tons of manure a year.' or something to that effect.

Gee, lots are selling pretty slow over there, go figure!

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rrlund

04-17-2007 07:25:55

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

Speaking from experience,I'd almost bet the farm that the people on that board weren't "from around here". That's what happens when we get complacent,don't get involved and just asume everything will work out OK. Outsiders take over our neighborhoods and nail our hides to the wall.

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Blue3992 (N Illinois)

04-16-2007 20:17:12

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

Dave, I feel your pain. I'm about an hour west of Chicago, and the burbs feel like they're creeping closer every day.

I don't know what the official definition of "outlot" is, but I *thought* an outlot was a piece of land close to a road that was slated to become some sort of retail, like a strip mall or something.

And I'm no expert in zoning, development, or anything like that. But I have fought my way through a bureaucracy or two. I think Janicholson has the best advice below. You can complain all you want at your local board meetings, but it sounds like its falling on deaf ears. You gotta fight fire with fire. Talk to the state EPA, the local farm bureau, the local division of natural resources, etc. Get smart on the laws, regulations, and restrictions on builders. If you can find somewhere where the developers are breaking the law, get the requisite government agency (MN EPA, MN DnR, whatever) on the phone and see if you can get them involved. If phoning around doesn’t get you anywhere, drop by their offices.

Usually, it seems like the guy who knows the most about the rules and laws wins.

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Clint Youse MO

04-16-2007 19:46:20

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

Dave I feel what you are going through I have a hog farm in MIssouri no developers around me but people are trying to pass health ordinances saying that it is unhealthy to live near or around a concentrated animal feeding operation (CAFO) does not matter hogs sheep cattle or poultry. they are trying to stop the construction. I got lots of news articles I will look through them see if there is any thing that could benefit you.

And for Walt It is my land to so why can I not put in a 1200 sow gestation and farrowing barn with out neighbors complaining if I were Dave I would make sure everybody new that my barns were there and I should have the right to expand these developers and there customers do not care about my land If we develope all of it and cannot produce food are we going to import it like oil and pay through the nose for it right now you have the cheapest and safest food supply in the world. Remember the toxic pet food was because of wheat gluten from china could have been in your food. I dont care if they bought the land but do not try to put me out of bussiness so you can make a dollar.

Clint

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omahgreg

04-16-2007 18:59:35

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

Sorry to hear of your county boards rubber stamping of things! I live in the city limits of Omaha, so not directly relative, but-several years ago a commercial building directly next to me wanted to sell cigarettes-they were native american owned. My neighbors and I mounted a petition drive to fight it, but the city council gave its unanimous approval-said the state would overturn their disapproval anyway. My aunt and uncle moved from Colorado to his 'home' place in south central Nebraska about 5 years ago to farm. Now HE is complaining about his neighbors hog lot, because of the smell! Go figure! Some people are not happy unless they are unhappy-I guess. Greg

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georgeky

04-16-2007 12:59:25

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

Dave this is happening all over I guess. I live 15 miles from town and there are new housing project all around me now. The biggest trouble they will raise your property tax, just because the adjacent land is worth more dollars now. To the city fathers as my grandpa called them it is a way to make more money for their silly spending practices. There is no way for us farmers to pay taxes on a acre of land valued by them at 30 or 40,000 dollars per acre. I am angry to,but for different reasons than Walt it seems. The good land around here is bringing 5 to 7000 dollars an acre by land developers driving up the price. How can you farm 7000 out of an acre of land. Multiply that by a couple of hundred and you can't pay the interest on it much less the taxes to.

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Dave from MN

04-16-2007 13:50:02

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Re: development on development in reply to georgeky, 04-16-2007 12:59:25

$7000/acre round here is cheap..... NOW.

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Walt Davies

04-16-2007 11:53:55

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

I guess I'm on the other side after all its not your land its theirs and they should have the right to do what they want with their own land. If you want it to be farm then buy it up and farm it other wise keep your nose out of their business.
I had a 4 acre parcle I wanted to sell and it took 3 years an $19,000 to find out that the neighbors who don't even live near me have more rights as to what I can do with my land than I do.
Hey I hate to see good farm land go for housing but its going to happen either now or later. The farmer who owned the land has quit an his kids don't want it so what is he supposed to do with it. Let it go fallow and pay high taxes on it for years to come so the kids can get it an sell it off or should he get the money for it now an enjoy the rest of his life.
You guys who worry more about your own taxes going up and a new neighbor or two should think about what is going to happen when you get to old to farm.
Walt (one angry man)

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Dave from MN

04-16-2007 12:09:41

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Re: development on development in reply to Walt Davies, 04-16-2007 11:53:55

Walt, sorry you are unhappy. I agree if it's your land, you pay the taxes, you do what you want with it, but stay within the zoning regulations. Have respect for the people around you that have been there for the past 40 years. Have respect that young people like me have a large investment in our farm, which is already in existance, and should have the right to secure our future success from being jeapordized by people moving to the country and do not want to deal with smells, sounds, sights, of the country. As far as buying and taxes. The land was listed at an out of reach price for me, I inquired ASAP. It was bought for 3 times more than I paid for mine 3 years ago. It will be sold for 3 times more than that. How can a farmer stand down with the fear of his land 40-2000 acres being assessed at them kind of prices. If I lived 2 miles out of foley, St.Cloud, Sauk Rapids, Sartell, I wouyld expect it and not have an issue. I would probably develop my land also, but I am IN THE COUNTY WHERE FARMS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE. If your ever in the area, stop by for a steak, a beer, and some conversation. I am a good counselor.

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Walt Davies

04-16-2007 17:40:16

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 12:09:41

Dave, I know what you mean but what you really need to do it get a system like we have here in oregon and California where your taxes are set at what you bought the land for for plus 2 percent per year. It really helps the farmer who has seen his land jump in value. On top of that in Oregon we have farm and Forrest relief on taxes. I pay about $600 on land and house worth around $550,000 that helps me keep my land for farming.
Don't blame the city guy who just wants to get out of the rat rush and enjoy a little country living. people have been doing that for centuries and I don't see then stopping anytime soon.
We have this guy who claims to be a Friend of Oregon he spends his whole day down at the court house just waiting to prey on some poor sole who want to build on his acreage. he will tell lies an do anything he can to stop you. These kind of people we don't need. I you want him i will se if i can get him to move he is fast running out of friends around here.
I would love to stop by and debate this but having a Bum ticker an all I can't travel anymore. I just want to sell off some land so i can enjoy my Old age and help some poor sole get out of the city where they can raise their kids away from the gangs and such.
We all need to quit fighting this and work together so that everyone can enjoy his life all of it.
Walt

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David Snipes

04-16-2007 11:27:31

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

In my area almost every opposistion to development has failed. The politicians listen in their public meetings because they are requried to by public meeting protocol. They then go with the money, i.e. big business and big developers. You should do all you can to reasonably oppose the development of farm land. Later on, you can at least point out to anyone making a complaint or responding to one, that you made all the decision makers aware of potential problems such as noise, dust and odor. It could help to affirm your right to farm.

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mjbrown

04-16-2007 11:24:37

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

Sounds like there has been a pay out. Are you in an ag district?

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Dave from MN

04-16-2007 11:44:53

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Re: development on development in reply to mjbrown, 04-16-2007 11:24:37

Yes It is all Ag , all around me. This development is kinda out there, between , but far from other developments( which are in close proximitie to city encroachment or prior developments which, to me, makes sense, but out here makes no sense.

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Bernsy MN

04-16-2007 10:54:39

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

Hey Dave, Just curious if your land is on that sandy loam plain, NE of St. Cloud? You're off Hiway 23?

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Dave from MN

04-16-2007 11:48:27

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Re: development on development in reply to Bernsy MN, 04-16-2007 10:54:39

Were east of St. Cloud, south of 95. This area has sand, clay, black dirt. Where the develop ment is going is some sand but alot of clay. Although at the meeting the claim septic is not an issue "cause its all sand", but i grew up 40' from it and know how it is in wet years.

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Janicholson

04-16-2007 10:29:35

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

BLM, Soil & Water conservation Board, EPA, MDNR, and others they may think of might be able to throw so many requirements toward them that they see more clearly what the costs will be. A sewage treatment plant might be required, Almost no septic systems are allowed to be installed in clustered developments. Well drilling issues, Community water supply. Wetlands preservation.
Build a defense based on the laws now on the books, they might be trying to do the project, then ask for forgiveness if "necessary" Best of luck, JimN

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Coloken

04-16-2007 09:56:02

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

All those rich people gotta live some where.

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Knows Better

04-16-2007 09:36:07

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 09:10:15

Did you happen to notice if any thing was passed under the table???

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Dave from MN

04-16-2007 11:59:15

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Re: development on development in reply to Knows Better, 04-16-2007 09:36:07

I really hope not, there are some good people on that planning commission, including some growers, but I do think the zoning laws were changed to give developors the loop holes the get around these things. I am really diappointed in what my county is doing for Ag , and the direction being allowed for development of good and even marginal farm land. We can not feed the world from groung that is covered in pavement, cement, homes, and horse arena's.

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Kelly C

04-16-2007 17:30:31

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 11:59:15

Hey Dave. Whats your cross street out there? Along 95 east of 23 is some real nice farm land. I drove that road every day for years and always thought how nice it would be to have a farm there.
There must be some money changing hands. There is plenty of good places for a development along 23. No logical reason to plant one along 95.

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Dave from MN

04-17-2007 04:53:44

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Re: development on development in reply to Kelly C, 04-16-2007 17:30:31

I'm bout 2 miles south of 95 on county road 25. Very good and well drained farm land around here. Only issue I see is a LACK of manure for the land.

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rustyj14

04-16-2007 12:17:50

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Re: development on development in reply to Dave from MN, 04-16-2007 11:59:15

Aww, just hang on to what you have, and when you are the only large tract left, you should be able to get a pile of big ones for it! Or, the developer will make lots of trouble for you, and you'll have to sell at a big loss! No use worrying about it--you'll get the heave-ho, if you don't sell! they'll figure out some costly reason to let you stay there, if you don't sell! Money talks--B.S. walks! And, if you have that stuff around yer property, you'll be the talk and complaint of your neighborhood! "Why, his place didn't smell like that on the day we looked at the property, and when we signed the papers to buy it! He must have started doing that smelly work after that!" Mark my words!! I've seen it here in my area! Our Borough was a nice place to live, until the developers sued the Borough about the restrictive zoning laws, 1 acre lots, etc. And the borough fat-heads gave it all up to the fat developers! Now, every housing plan is full of cracker-boxes, thrown up on 1/4 acre lots, 200 or more in each section, 40 feet apart. the houses have 2x3 rafters! (In snow country) OSB panelling everywhere, cheap fixtures, shoddy construction, nd the plastic siding blows off everytime the wind blows! I don't know if you are familiar with Ryan Homes, but they are not the ones to buy!

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LBH

04-17-2007 13:07:07

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Re: development on development in reply to rustyj14, 04-16-2007 12:17:50

You should get a big load of chicken sh** and use it for fertilizer. They won"t sell many lots with that smell. We use it on our farm land once a year. Best fertilizer you can get.

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