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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

E-85?

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Tim Shultz

05-22-2007 14:54:58




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for the first time we can get E-85 here in town, and I am wanting too know if I can run it in my nissan altima (1999) and how many times I am going too need too change the fuel filter.. it"s 32 cents cheaper then gas.. so yeah.. Thanks, Tim




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Bill46

05-23-2007 04:49:33




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 Re: E-85? in reply to Tim Shultz, 05-22-2007 14:54:58  
Best go and ask the service dept where you got the car. I have a Ford that is E85 qualified. On a Ford there is a K in the serial number. They run a little more than a 10% engine. And, no mine does not have a yellow fuel cap. It is a 95 model.
Don't try to second guess it...go and ask. You just might save an electric fuel pump or other component.
My 2 cents.



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gene bender

05-23-2007 04:04:24




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 Re: E-85? in reply to Tim Shultz, 05-22-2007 14:54:58  
Dont as your engine is not flex fuel. I live in IOWA where the e-85 was developed and from the beginning they say if your engine is not flex fuel do not use the product. Now there will always be someone with story of how to cheat and make it work but then later they never tell you about the big repair bill. You need a newer car designed for flex fuel.



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Leland

05-22-2007 20:36:32




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 Re: E-85? in reply to Tim Shultz, 05-22-2007 14:54:58  
you could get by mixing about 4 gals per fill up but any more than that will destroy your fuel sysytem ,my s-10 has special fuel lines a plastic tank and 350 injectors and a 10-1 compression ratio in a 2.2 4 banger and your computer is probley only designed for a max of 20% mix of alcohol to start with



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R.D.F.

05-22-2007 19:45:22




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 Re: E-85? in reply to Tim Shultz, 05-22-2007 14:54:58  
Gee, I sure hope the regular gas police don"t read this. The last 2 Taurus cars my wife had were Flex-Fuel cars, must have been factory rejects cause neither had yellow gas caps. She traded with 100,000 miles way past memory, her first requirement on this current car,Flex-Fuel OK. She is a stickler for recording every mile driven and every drop of fuel input. There is some milage lost but E85 is so far ahead in the economics of her daily driving routine she doesn"t even hesitate to use it in any weather conditions. By the way, the shop"s old taurus(1993) was driven the last 150,000 miles on E-85, still has the original exhaust at close to 300,000 miles. I sure hope it doesn"t blow up soon, curious to see how long it"ll last. Bottom line, if E-85 is easily available don"t be afraid to use it, start slow, maybe a quarter tank and gradually move to what you feel comfortable with. We feel 100% secure with it, remember, the first cars were built to use it a hundred years ago. Do not let the regular gas police scare you, Dale

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Gerald J.

05-22-2007 18:09:38




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 Re: E-85? in reply to Tim Shultz, 05-22-2007 14:54:58  
How much ethanol you can run depends on how much oversize the injectors are and how hard you drive. It takes 43% greater volume of E-85 compared to E-0. The computer with the oxygen sensors will extend the injection pulses to keep the mixture correct. If you don't drive hard the injectors will keep up and won't run lean. If you demand full power from the engine and the injectors can't supply enough fuel, the engine will run lean and probably ping. Knock sensors should retard the timing to protect the pistons, but too much pinging can melt piston tops. And that retarded timing will significantly affect performance and fuel economy. E-85 has a higher octane rating, so it can run leaner without knocking than straight unleaded, something like 110 compared to 87.

A characteristic of an engine running lean is increased exhaust temperature. If I was going to run E-85 in an engine not factory rated for E-85 (and a lot of the rating is likely to be special EPA testing of the parts and the vehicle) I would add an exhaust gas temperature gauge and when that started to shoot up when working the engine hard, I'd back off on the throttle to cool it down.

I've read several reports of non E-85 engines running fine on a 50/50 blend of E-85 and E-10. There are those that say any more ethanol than E-10 will do damage and with some engines under some conditions that may be true, but then those vehicles must stay out of Minnesota because in a year or so all Minnesota gas will be E-20. All Minnsota gas (though not labeled on most pumps) is now E-10.

Back about 2000 there was a college contest to convert a vehicle to E-85. The process and results from U T Austin were on the internet. They changed the injectors, they changed fuel system gaskets, the fuel pump, and added a flash suppressor to the gas tank, they did not change or chip the computer, and they added graphics to the sides of the truck.

For years Ford Taurus were available with a flex fuel option at no added cost, so the changes much not have been significant.

As far as I can learn, EPA and CARB are strongly against conversions on the basis that they expect fuel system seals and gaskets to fail after several years of E-85 and those drips and leaks they consider will contribute excessive volatile organic compound pollution even though the engine exhaust will be cleaner.

Gerald J.

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RayP(MI)

05-22-2007 17:43:57




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 Re: E-85? in reply to Tim Shultz, 05-22-2007 14:54:58  
Most of what said below is right on... Check your owner's manual, unless it says you specifically can, you shouldn't try. Or call your dealer, they can tell you. Fuel dealers here that sell E-85 also have a list of the cars that can handle it. If yours isn't one of them, and you try E-85, expect reduced fuel econony, possible rough running, all kinds of error codes, etc. The nasty is that if your fuel system isn't designed to handle alcohol, some of the rubber or plastic parts may deteriorate, leading to real problems.

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tractorhead

05-22-2007 15:44:06




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 Re: E-85? in reply to Tim Shultz, 05-22-2007 14:54:58  
e85 gets 20/30 percent less milage...also if your car can run on e85 it will have a yellow gas cap...



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buickanddeere

05-22-2007 15:31:05




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 Re: E-85? in reply to Tim Shultz, 05-22-2007 14:54:58  
Miles per gallon will drop. Your vehicle is fuel injected and has the ability to compensate rich/lean over a limited range. Odds are a 100% dose of E-85 will run too lean. The vehicle has OBD II. The O2 sensor output and fuel injector pulse width can be monitored to find the E-85 to gasoline mix where the ECM can no longer compensate. If it was a vehicle from the Big Three, larger injectors were installed and a custom fuel/timing map programed in. The vehicle could be made to run reasonably well. Time & $$$ howver. If you really want to use E-85. Drive a factory built E-85 capable vehicle.

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tractormiallis

05-22-2007 15:27:36




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 Re: E-85? in reply to Tim Shultz, 05-22-2007 14:54:58  
No one can run E85 unless they have a vehicle that is "flex fuel" approved and specially designed to run it. To run it anyhow would severely destroy the engine.



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Jon Hagen

05-22-2007 17:37:27




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 Re: E-85? in reply to tractormiallis, 05-22-2007 15:27:36  
You should be able to use atleast a 50% E85/50% E10 or pure gasoline in your FI engine. I have run as mych as 80% E85 in my non flex fuel 2000 Dakota with 4.7 V8 without problems. Fuel economy dropped 10% with the 80% mix. Power seemed normal and no check engine light, so the engine must be able to compensate the AF ratio for that mix. I hear the claims of fuel system damage to non flex fuel engines, but I have had no problems and hear others with 50-100,000 miles on an E85/gasoline blend in non flex fuel engines without problems. For all but a few special conditions the warnings may be overblown.

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