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a real tractor question - MFWD (snow)

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ChrisLSD

12-07-2007 13:02:32

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so, I see the topic below about lack of tractor talk and have wondered with all the pictures of old Ford 9's and old IH's with rear blades on for snow removal - all the way now to some people using trailing box blades for snow removal.....

so how much snow could a medium sized (120 HP ) mfwd drive tractor drive through while pulling a three point blade?

I know it varies a lot from tire quality, to how much weight to how packed the snow is, but can they virtually go through anythng? anyhting under 4 foot? or just what?

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BarryfromIA

12-07-2007 15:26:53

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to rrlund, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

Vee plow and road gear. And if you don't get clear through, you can drive it away next spring. third party image

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onefarmer

12-07-2007 13:52:40

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to RobMD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

There is more to it than HP and how much snow. Like what is under the snow... gravel, mud, cement, ice. You won't move as much snow on ice as on gravel. My Farmall M can go through and move more snow on gravel than my JD4430 can on ice. Now put some tire chains on the 4430 and now we are talking.

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fixerupper

12-08-2007 07:36:53

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to ChrisLSD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

Ever thought about a 3PT bucket? Gnuse makes a good one. A neighbor has a 12' Gnuse on a 200 HP front assist. Boy can he move snow! I paid $500 for a used 7 foot Gnoose that is in excellent shape. They are built pretty strong too. I dug tons of dirt with it on a 1086 last summer and it took it in stride. Put a hyd cylinder in the top link and it's even better. The downfall is you are looking back all the time and if you have any back/neck problems you might not be happy with it.Jim

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triplerange

12-08-2007 07:17:43

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to ChrisLSD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

It's alright till you hit something really solid underneath the snow and bust a big hole in the rear end! Then you've got a 120 horse lawn ornament.

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davediehl@hotmail.com

12-07-2007 23:28:36

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to ChrisLSD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

I am a little suprised that no one has looked into the 3 point snowblower. With 120 horsies under the hood, you could easily mount an 8 foot blower on the back and travel anywhere you want to go. I am not sure where you are or how much snow you have, but I can tell you 120 horse on a rear blade is a waste of time. The amount of snow that will go over the top is going to make you redo what you clear more than once. You would be alot better off actually moving the snow with the blower AND you will have enough traction to get the job done. Just a thought.

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I don't have a name

12-07-2007 19:37:24

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to ChrisLSD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

I'd put that money towards a front end loader for that 120hp tractor rather than a rear blade. For that much tractor a rear blade that won't be turned into scrap metal the first time you use it is going to be expensive, those 3pt blades you find all over are not meant to go on tractors that big. They do make such blades, but you can count on spending atleast a couple thousand for one. On a 4wd tractor you don't need to run chains, they manage quite well, unlike a 2wd thats useless without chains. Like it has been said, they will go until they get high centered and 4ft is beyond what they can do. I think you'll find 120hp is going to be expensive snow removal with todays fuel costs. All I got to say is get yourself a big bucket to go on that loader, so you can make the most per pass. Narrow tires are better than wide ones on ice and snow, what you want is to be able to bite down into the surface for traction, wide ones makes good ice skates. Stay away from rice and cane tires, those are hard rubber, and totally worthless in winter, you also might have troubles with any deep lug radial, but other than that I think you'll be ok.

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JK-NY

12-07-2007 17:00:52

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to ChrisLSD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

You would go alot farther in deeper snow pushing the blade backwards so the tractor runs on a cleared path than pulling the blade in deep snow. Using a box blade on a 4000 Ford, I can pull a fair amount of snow but it will build up in the box andd around the drawbar etc then either the blade will ride up or snow spills over. With the same blade going backwards I have pushed back snow banks and pushed back drifts 3' high as the tractor is on a cleared path.This is with a 2wd tractor and no chains.

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Cliff Neubauer

12-07-2007 15:37:59

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to ChrisLSD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

We've got a Case IH 5140 95hp MFD tractor with a loader and while I've never tried to move much snow with a 3pt blade on it but it's very hard to stop it pushing snow with the loader and 7' bucket. If you have alot of snow to push a front mount blade on a 120hp MFD tractor would push a ton of snow and depending on the transmission could be very fast.

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Mike M

12-07-2007 14:33:57

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to ChrisLSD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

We used to use the little JD 750 4x4 compact for snow removal it had ag tires on it then no chains. It could go about anywhere and even pull a full 5'blade of snow up the drive. Big drifts it was light enough to kinda float on top of them. I'd go out in the field and just play.It would even go up the ice covered drive you couldn't even walk up.

When we got the larger 2wd 4020 with loader and blade it was way faster but helpless. The weight seemed to hurt you. We have a pretty good slope/hill and gravity pulls you down. It didn't take long to figure out we NEEDED chains on that 4020 then it did really good.

I had a JD 755 4x4 compact with turf tires and one year we had a pretty good wet snow and I couldn't even get all the way out of the garage with it ! I was able to put the blade on my old JD M and get the job done,but it was slow going.

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RodInNS

12-07-2007 14:12:31

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to ChrisLSD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

Generally any tractor will go through snow up to about it's belly. It doesn't much matter if it's two wheel or FWD. When they high center, that's it. If you were talking fluffy powder you might go through more, but here where we get heavy wet snow the belly is it.
I wouldn't expect to pull much with a box blade either. You'll about get a blade full and that's it. If you try to drag more you'll just spin out...
Best thing you can do is put chains on all drive wheels and go at it. The tractor I use for snow removal has 4 sets of chains on it, a loader on the front and a blower on the back. 18 inches is about all it can go through but once it claws thorugh it'll drag a normal load behind it... but it can still get stuck.
The worst thing here for snow removal is a good tire. I've got a good set of Michelin radials on that tractor and they have such a large footprint that threre is no ground pressure left to bite on a hard surface. A great field tire and a great tire in deep powdery snow where it can fill the lug, but absolutely useless on a hard surface...
And to anyone who thinks that an M or H could do the same thing, all I can say is dream on. I'll stay on the little FWD and get the job done instead of freezing my gonads off plowing snow for half a day when 1/2 an hour will do the job.

Rod

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Ken Macfarlane

12-07-2007 16:08:33

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to RodInNS, 12-07-2007 14:12:31

I'm with Rod on this, my 50 hp 4wd kubota has about the same belly clearance as my friends 120 hp 4wd. In the middle of winter we have the same luck driving in snow to do logging. You gotta lower the bucket and plow.

Chains really help with packy wet snow problems and ice if you have v-bars or corks.

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dhermesc

12-07-2007 14:09:06

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to ChrisLSD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

Spin your blade around and back into the snow "pushing" it like a dozer blade. With 120hp and good weights you can go a couple feet - but by then the snow will be spilling over the blade.

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12-07-2007 13:26:30

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to ChrisLSD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

Better use 2 wheel drive about 50 hp with a small front loader. If snow gets deep you slowly dig a path, if snow is too deep you don't even try so you don't get stuck like you would by believing 4WD will go anywhere. Old M and loader might take 1/2 the day to clear drive but doesn't end up in ditch. RN

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jdemaris

12-07-2007 13:17:55

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to ChrisLSD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

I'm in a mountainous area of New York. Most of what's left of the dairy farmers have 4WD tractors for spreading manure or carrying hay bales in the winter. They get stuck in two feet of snow in flatland - and the steep hills - not a chance. My one neighbor has a 130 horse Deutz-Allis and the other a 120 horse newer Deere.
My one neighbor - when the snow gets over 2', puts the snowblower on his Deere and goes around his fields making paths - for himself to use later. On the same topic, I had a Deere 440 log-skidder with bearpaw chains on all four wheels. Even IT would barely go through more than two feet of hard snow going up hill unless you plowed it a little first. And, it had a lock that made all four wheels turn (no differential). I tried to go up the mountain behind me one day - with 2-3 feet of hard snow. I got half-way up and then it just stopped - bouncing up and down while those bearpaw chains started to dig their way to China.

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in-too-deep

12-07-2007 13:06:48

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to ChrisLSD, 12-07-2007 13:02:32

Dang near impossible to answer. Any vehicle with four tires clawing at the ground can really do some amazing things. On the other hand, when you get one stuck, it's really stuck. I'd say in snow, it's all about floatation. Duals in back and in front would help a great deal. If you do manage to get it buried in snow, just wait 'til it melts ; ) Betchya can't do that with mud!

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RobMD

12-07-2007 13:43:07

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to in-too-deep, 12-07-2007 13:06:48

Actually, flotation is the worst thing you could imagine on the snow. You don"t want to ride on top of the snow, you want all the weight of the tractor to be on solid ground underneath. The thinner the tire is, the more ground contact you"re gonna have. A tractor with hundreds of pounds of weights on single rear wheels will beat a dual wheeled tractor with no weights any day with snow. Mud is an exception.

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davpal

12-07-2007 22:43:07

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to RobMD, 12-07-2007 13:43:07

That is not exactly true Rob. Have you watched the discovery channel when they take those expeditions to greenland and drive the big toyota 4x4's and big 4wd ford 1 ton vans over the ice cap and snow pack? They run big 44 inch Dick Cepek radial tires and go right over the snow. Works very well. I know it works too because I was out goofing around with two trucks one night in the Michigan winter. I had a 1976 Ford F-250 High boy 4x4 truck with very skinny radial snows on it and a friend of mine had a 1979 F-150 with a four inch lift kit and some 14 inch wide, 35 inch tall Dick Cepek Mud country tires with a 400 cubic inch V-8 and auto tranny. I had a 460 with an auto tranny. He was able to go through much more snow than my truck. They both sat the same height and he could do more. All you had to do was watch him and you could see the truck fly right over the snow. It would lift right up and go right over anything. Mine would plow right through down to the road and I would get hi centered every time. I know a lot of guys with big monster mudder tires that said the same thing. I later had a jeep pickup with 35 inch monster mudders, a 4 inch lift and a chevy 400 small block that would also go through, or should I say over much more snow than the ford. I now have a 88 F-350 4x4 with big tall firestones and it is about the same deal as the f-250. White actually made a 4x4 tractor that was the 4-210 model that was called the slope boss that had monster truck tires on it and they used it on ski slopes. So flotation does work well on snow.

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in-too-deep

12-07-2007 16:00:31

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to RobMD, 12-07-2007 13:43:07

Hmm, well, now I know better! Tell ya what, I'll just avoid snow altogether. : )

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RobMD

12-07-2007 19:36:30

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to in-too-deep, 12-07-2007 16:00:31

LOL!! Don't we all wish we could do that?

;)

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bradk

12-07-2007 14:38:12

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to RobMD, 12-07-2007 13:43:07

Well said Rob

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Wardner

12-07-2007 18:49:24

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Re: a real tractor question - MFWD (snow) in reply to bradk, 12-07-2007 14:38:12

I agree.

That is why Oshkosh and Walters only run singles on the rear axle.

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