Why buy a diesel?

But when you concider I more than likely will get another 200,000 miles out of this truck. The fact that I can with a full load of hay on the trailer and the back full I can accelerate wile going up hill.
And I get 23 mile per gallon compared to the 10 I used to get.( I dont get 23 with a load of hay on) It was a purchase made in heaven for me.
I will never not have a diesel truck again ever! Its made that much of a difference in the stuff I do.

As far as longevity goes when camparing a gas to a diesel, it's no different than a tractor. The diesel is usually going to hold up longer under a load than a gas will, and the diesel will have more torque. The basic physics between the two has not changed and it never will. Jim

The diesel will out pull the gasser on hills and will get up to speed faster, but the gasser is more than capable and will reach speed limits without extraordinary effort.

I drive the gasser most of the time. An employee drives the diesel. Most of my driving (w/ the gasser) is without a load. all things considered, the gasser is far cheaper to operate day to day. Replacement cost would be $5000 to $6000 less for the gasser. It"s quieter. (That"s more important as you get older ;) ) Someone mentioned routine maint cost. Frequency of maint is more often with gasser but considerably more costly with the diesel. They mentioned tires. I"d love to know why they believe tire cost would be less with the diesel. From all indications, that"s a wash. Operational cost of the trucks, engines excluded are approximately the same. Life expectancy of the chassis is about the same regardless of how long the engine is expected to last.

My point is, it all depends on what you"ll be doing with the truck as to which is more practical. More towing than not, definately a diesel. More of a "grocery getter" with occasional towing or none at all, gasser is far more practical and with fuel/gas prices as they are NOW, the gasser is MUCH cheaper to own and operate.

Don

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Incidentally my wife routinely gets about 28 mpg potting around town in her '04 Impala with the 3.8. On long trips it'll do 33+. Great car!

23mpg diesel (87 C10 6.2 700R4 3.08)=3.04 gal * $4.20 = $12.78 x5 x45 = $2875.5 Extra maintenance $100 plates $100 Cool = 10 Hassle (starting, filters) = 2

17mpg gas (1999 2500 5.3 4L80E 3.42)= 4.12 gal * 3.30 = $13.59 x5 x45 = $3057.75 Extra maintenance $25 (more oil, tires) plates $120
Cool = 5 Hassle (parking, tire cost) = 5

23mpg gas (chevy venture 3.4 4T60E) = 3.04 gal * 3.30 = $10.04 x5x45 = $2259 Plates $80
Cool = -1 Hassle = 0

So, is it worht $6-800 a year to me to not drive an ugly minivan? Not yet.

But the payback on a nes $2200 car that gets better mileage is 3 years, assuming no maintenance.

Better to take the same $600 and rebuild my L6 for use in the C10... 20MPH gas and cool = 10.

Finally, I can say that all of the hub-bub about a desiel being more expensive to maintain is hogwash. Air filter? same, and I put in a K&N that is cleanable. Fuel filter- same. Oil change- yeah, more oil, but goes twice as long between service. Train oil filter? small price to pay for the Allison.

Now as for price- yeah, sticker was higher...but who pays sticker? When I shopped it, I shopped it HARD- internet and all- and I ended up with the 2500HD Duramax for about 2 grand more than the best deal I could get on the big engined gasser.

As for the "Crew Cab Pusher" to look cool- at 50, I still have 4 kids at home (the youngest is 2), so when I'm pullin' I need room for munchkins! If I was a retired old fart, I'd probably still get a crew cab- because I like 'em.

Todays gas engines will live just as long as any current diesel. My family has many GM gas V/8's that are at 100,000 to 220,000 with no problems.

All the $$$ saved on diesel fuel goes out the window with one pump or injector repair.

I do think that a lot of diesel is prestige, noise and smoke. My Extra Super Duper Bully Dog is meaner than your Bully Dog etc. etc.

#1 comment - "Todays gas engines will live just as long as any current diesel."

Some of the diesels put into pickup trucks can last 500,000 miles of hard use before a tear-down. You won't find a gas engine with that sort of projected life-span when used hard. Auto engineering uses a "B" rating to measure lifespan of truck engines being used like trucks and not like cars - i.e. pulling trailers, heavily loaded, plowing snow, etc. The older 5.9 Cummins has a B50 rating of 350,000 miles. So do the Ford-IH 7.3s. That B50 mean that 50% of them make it to 350,000 miles with hard use and no major repairs. It also means many last longer than that. The new Ford-IH 6.4 diesel has a B50 rating of 375,000 miles.

#2 comment - "the $$$ saved on diesel fuel goes out the window with one pump or injector repair."

Not true if you do the work yourself. I just put new injectors in my 94 Ford F250 with 7.3 turbo diesel. Brand new injector nozzles cost me $7 each. It took me four hours to put in eight of them. Last winter, I pulled the injection pump off for routine maintance at 220,000 miles. I found several worn parts (advance piston, cam ring, etc.). I replaced all for a total parts cost of $85 and, start to finish, around 12 hours of my time.

Didn't think so.....

Allan

It's hard to keep up with all this pressure. LOL!

Allan

Truck is closing in on 10,000 miles and still has the break-in oil. Hmmmmm m.

Think I'll have 'em rotate and balance those tires too while I'm at it. :>)

Allan

Right now, with diesel costing a dollar more than reg gas - it's a toss-up. With a light truck driven empty most of time - many gas rigs are cheaper to drive. But, a heavier truck actually getting used like a truck? That's questionable.

My wife and I have over 40 diesel cars and trucks. I pick and choose which get put onto the road for summer, winter, etc. Obvisously not a "prestige" thing since the newest one is a 1994. I have never paid more then $3200 for a vehicle in my life. Up until the last few years, older diesel rigs sold dirt cheap since many people were afraid of them. I have bought many for less than $100 and some were given for free.
Since few people know how to work on them, very often all it takes is an injection pump to go bad, the mechanic wants to send the pump out somewhere for repair and high $$s, and owner scraps the vehicle.

For cars - our two 1981 diesel Chevettes can both get 45-50 MPG on the highway and 35 MPG around town. Our two 1991 Volkswgen Jettas do a little better. My wife drives 50 miles a day on steep, dirt, mountain back roads and the Jetta averages 38 MPG on those trips. The best small gas car we've owned gets 22 MPG on the same trip. That gives a lot of lee-way for price disparities between gas and diesel.

With trucks? I've been thinking about changing over to gas if the price difference gets any worse. However - I would never buy new. If someone is looking to be economical - no new truck makes any sense to me. We have three remote properties that we drive too - always with a truck - sometimes with a camper on it - sometimes loaded with materials - and sometimes pulling a trailer. One property is 1000 miles away, another 180 miles, and the other 120 miles. My best fuel-mileage truck is a 92 Dodge W250 4WD extended-cab with a Cummins 5.9. Gets 22 MPG normally, and 18 MPG loaded with stuff and a slide-on camper on the back. Now, with gas being cheaper than diesel, a 3/4 ton 4WD extra-cab gas-truck needs to be capable of getting better than 14 MPG to drive as cheap. From any reports I've heard or read - there are none out there. I'm not talking about driving an empty truck down a flat highway - I'm talking somewhat loaded down on northeastern hilly roads and highways. I have a friend with a new Chevy - 6 liter gas, ex-cab, 4WD, 3/4 ton. With a camper on the back he gets around 13 MPG on highway trips.

Here are a few other examples - unverified but seem to be reasonble.

This guy kept good records of MPG's using the same trailers, and driving empty. It seems the Chevy with the 5.7 gasser did pretty well against the 6.5 diesel but . . . the diesel truck is a heavier rig with ex-cab and 4WD.

1989 R3500 with a gas 4 bbl 454, 4-6/6-8 mpg
1988 K3500 Ext cab gas TBI 454 6-8/8-11
1996 K3500 crew cab diesel 6.5TD, 10-14/14-18
2000 C2500 reg cab gas 5.7, 11-13/ 13-15

An 89 Ford with 460C.I.EFI came back from an 1140 mile round trip to N. Mex. Pulled a 36' Jayco 5th wheel trailer which scales at 11,000 LB. Avg. Fuel mileage was 6.5 to 8 MPG.

Hauling a Western Wilderness 11" cab-over with all the stuff in it with a 2,700 -
3,000#. Used to haul it on a '77 Chevy 3/4T, 454. At best it got 9 MPG on the flat running
approx. 60mph. Pulling grades or fighting wind the MPG could easily drop to 5mph.
Hauling the same camper on a '02 GMC 3500, Duramax, Allison 5 speed, DRW, ext. cab, I
get 10.5-11 MPG running the speed limit (maybe 5 over). That is up grades and/or fighting
head-winds.

Dodge D2500 with the V-10. Pulled a 27' Salem 5RVabout 3000 miles at 70 MPH and averaged 7.5 MPG. It had a 3.54 rear. Then traded for a D 2500 with the 5.9 Cumins and pulling the
same 5RV on a 6112 mile trip and average milage was 13.8 at 70 MPH. Both trucks were
3.54 rear, both were Quad cab, both were 4X4.

Agree most diesels are some warped sort of status thing, but your reasoning got weak with your claim.

In my case, I wish I had the diesel, but not bad enough to pay all the extra $$$ for it.

Unless it is crucial to your livihood,if you are making payments on it, you can't afford it.

Most are just used as transportation, not totally crucial to putting food on the table.

To each his own...

Fast forward to 2008 - diesel is $4.35 vs $3.39 for gas. So now the diesel’s economics are pretty much out the window. Only the durability/longevity of the diesel engine (and the fact my truck is paid for!) makes it attractive to me anymore.

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On a somewhat related note just yesterday a local GM dealer began offering $8,000 rebates on new diesel-powered P/U’s purchased from stock. Just perhaps diesel P/U’s are not selling so well right now?

Some of it is prestige, but some do need it.

Until recently diesel was cheaper than gas and diesel gets better mileage. But the tide has turned right now.

All my trips are short trips,starting a diesel all the time takes its toll on a diesel also.

Gary