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IH TD-25B Over heating

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Jon

10-29-2000 08:16:35




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Over the last year or so we have been having problems with our TD-25B overheating. It will run and work fine for an hour or so, then the temp starts to come on up. If you let it sit for 10-15 minutes it will cool back into the RUN, and then after 5 minutes of running(pushing hard or just driving) it will start to overheat again. We have done almost everything we can think of. Checked for cranked heads(no bubbles in radiator when running, no oil in water and no water in oil), Cleaned the radiator several times with pressure washer and cleaned any oil off with mineral spirits and still overheats. We have changed the antifreeze, flushed radiator, had radiator cleaned, new thermostates, new gauge, rechecked timing on engine, new waterpump put on. It does have fairly heavy exhaust at idle, and really pours out black smoke going from idle to full speed. When it reaches full speed the exhaust is almost clear. Is it possible that the injection pump is putting the wrong amount of fuel into the engine and causing the overheating?

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jimmyz

10-29-2000 13:04:11




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 Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to Jon, 10-29-2000 08:16:35  
on lower left side of engine there are two oil coolers, one for engine oil and the other for trans. the tubes may be plugged and not allowing good coolant flow. They have to be removed to be cleaned.



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Jon

10-29-2000 14:11:44




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 Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to jimmyz, 10-29-2000 13:04:11  
Those were cleaned when the engine was rebuilt, but not since then. The Torque Converter and tranny seem to be staying right where they should be.



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bill

10-29-2000 09:52:17




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 Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to Jon, 10-29-2000 08:16:35  
Looks like you have checked for all of the obvious signs. I know that the steering brakes and tracks are at proper adjustment.

If the pump were going bad on that machine, you would either not be running or would have a definate miss. If one of the tips went bad the spray pattern would be off or you would be slobbering all over the place. You are not having that problem right now from the sounds of it.

It still might be a cracked head. I have seen it on the older TD9 series where the head is cracked and it is not showing by bubbles in the raidiator.

When you take it apart, look at the cylinder walls to make sure you are not starting to score.

Also they will run hotter if the precomubustion cup is bad. They get badly pitted over time.

Good luck.

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Jon

10-29-2000 10:24:19




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 Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to bill, 10-29-2000 09:52:17  
Well 6 years ago the engine was completely rebuilt and new heads put on. The injector pump was replaced in 1997, and it seems to me we started having problems after that, but to me it looks as if its putting in too much fuel to the engine, but wouldn't this make it run cooler? We checked the water temp at the top of the radiator and it was around 180-190. Then temp at the temp gauge is getting into the 220-225 range and would keep goin if we didn't let it cool down.

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bill

10-29-2000 20:13:36




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 Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to Jon, 10-29-2000 10:24:19  
If you were putting too much fuel into the engine there would be two possible outcomes. One is tha the engine would slober all over the place--wet stacking- and two, if there were too much fuel to late in the cycle and it would be getting down in to the engine past the rings. You would have poor power response. Too early and the engine will beat itself to death with precombustion.

Could your timing gears be worn or be wobbling on one of the shafts just enough to cause it to be out of time as rpm goes up. If your timing were to far off the engine would be really run hard.

You said that after the pump was replaced you started to have problems?

What is she running without the cap? It is a presured system, but the water at the top of the radiator should be w/in a few degrees of that from that measured at the top of the head. 225+ is way too hot, Too hard on too many things unless you were running a synthetic oil which has a thermal breakdown of around 1500 degrees. The rubber that is used to make conventional mult-vis oil starts to break down really fast at that heat and engine pressure.

Other possibilities are exhaust blow by on the valves. Have you checked compression. I would presume the head was a rebuilt/rewelded or was it from salvage but tested good. Was there a full valve job done?

You have rodded the raidiator and flow checked it?

There still exists the possiblity that in the last 6 years it may have finally cracked.

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Jon

10-30-2000 04:58:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to bill, 10-29-2000 20:13:36  
Well I guess there is the possibility of the timing being off at the higher RPM's, but how would I check this? I'm not for sure what its running at without the cap, the temp at the top of the radiator was 180-190* compared to the 220-225 at the head. We have not checked the compression, but yes the heads were from a parts dozer and were magnafluxed and came out good. The heads were rebuilt. Could the valves be out of adj and causing this? Excuse me, but what do you mean by "rodding" the radiator? Yeah I guess there is the possibility that the heads are cracked, I don't really see how, but there is always that possibility there.

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BIll

10-30-2000 10:01:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to Jon, 10-30-2000 04:58:20  
Rodding a radiator is where a fine rod is pushed throught the core of the radiator to make sure that there are no blocked channels. If there are too many blocked channels than the radiator will not be able to cool effectively.

This works only on radiators that can be taken apart and the core worked one.

That is quite a cooling differential between the head and the top of the radiator.

Would be interesting to see what happend without a thermostat. The engine will not come up to temp as fast but should get get there. You should have full water flow ect to the whole system. The bypass should not be into play either.

If they are out of adjustment you can burn a valve over time or ruin the valve seat. You can check valve lash to check on that and the springs are supposed to have a particular setting for pressure when depressed. Most engines is is over 300lbs for valve springs. If it less than that over time deposits will build up there and the valve will not fully close.

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Jon

10-30-2000 14:29:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to BIll, 10-30-2000 10:01:58  
I'm not for sure if the radiator was rodded or not, the radiator shop said they cleaned it very well and the water stays its original color and doesn't discolor from rust or anything. I guess I could remove both thermostates and run it like that to see what it does, but when we check them, they were opening up fully, so would taking them out really make a difference? I will also recheck the valves to see where they are at. I'll get back on here in a week or so and see what I can find out. Thanks for your help!

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jimmyzz

10-29-2000 13:15:08




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 Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to Jon, 10-29-2000 10:24:19  
220 is really pushing it on that engine.



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Jon

10-29-2000 14:16:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to jimmyzz, 10-29-2000 13:15:08  
Yeah i know. I wish there was a way to tell the amount of water flow through the engine, but since the radiator cap is off to the left of where the water comes into the radiator, you can't get a good look at it.



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jimmyzz

10-30-2000 22:21:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to Jon, 10-29-2000 14:16:06  
there is most likely a pipe plug on one of the coolers. take that out and hook up hose that will reach rad. filler cap . run eng., you should have good stream of water with some preasure. 817's can't take 220, you may have already cracked head(s).make sure plug removed is for water not oil.



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RICH

10-31-2000 05:12:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to jimmyzz, 10-30-2000 22:21:18  
If you have a large cracked head into the water jacket
belive me you will either blow the cap off the
serg tank or water all over from the radaitor cap
if no serg tank, after looking at all the post
my 2 cents worth is check the fan belts and belt tension you dont have to hear them squeel for
them to be loose and not do there job. sounds like as soon as the rpms
are at idle it cools. also checkpulleys for wear
new belts and woreout pulleys dont work so well.
the other thing is if this problem started after
you put on the inj pump find the service manual
check the pump timing if you feel your timing is ok take it off and take to a good!! pump shop
and have it checked. GOOD LUCK

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Jon

10-31-2000 15:56:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to RICH, 10-31-2000 05:12:24  
Talked to the pump shop that rebuilt the pump and they said they would be more than glad to come out this week and adjust the pump, timing and injectors on it. We'll see what happens after this and I'll get back to you guys with the outcome.



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jamie mcneil

10-03-2001 06:02:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to Jon, 10-31-2000 15:56:47  
i would like to know about the heating systems for a tractor as i am doing a project on the subject at my college. if you could send me some information i would be very grateful. yours sincerely Jamie McNeil



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Lilian

11-01-2000 11:36:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to Jon, 10-31-2000 15:56:47  
Hello. You think that the injection pump give too much fuel, but another point is that if the turbocharger doesn't work well, you haven't enough air. Did you check it? If you need somethink about the turbocharger, I have the service manual about turbocharger for international diesel engines (ISS-1047-1). Good luck
Lilian



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Jon

11-01-2000 14:05:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to Lilian, 11-01-2000 11:36:53  
Thanks. That is another factor that could come into play. It is a brand new turbo on there, so I wouldn't think that is it, but the air filter and such could be. If I end of needing some help with the turbo, I'll get back to you.



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Jamie - Australia

11-03-2000 04:59:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH TD-25B Over heating in reply to Jon, 11-01-2000 14:05:26  
I have just finished reading all the responses posted regarding your heating problem. I have had a similar problem with a HD21P and a TD15B and a D6B. The problem was the tubes in the radiators were blocked, it only took a few. We did try cleaning it out by back flushing it, but we had to pull the top of the radiator and had water pumping up through the bottom and through to the top and using a piece of flat steel or dip stick to clean out the tubes(cores) that are blocked. The reason that we had water pumping in through the bottom of it is because on the TD15B radiator the bottom tank was soldered on and the top one could be bolted off. On the HD21P that I have now, it was a brand new core, only 6 months old and it had the same problem. With the D6 we just back flushed it with high pressure water and that cleared most of the flake rust out. Hope this is of some help because I know it can be frustrating.

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