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Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing??

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Lisa

01-27-2003 12:00:22




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To PLOW a long private dirt, hilly, rain rutted, unlevel, road, can't handle pickup 4x4 with plow, rips off plow or plowframe every time. Need something heavy construction to snowplow and keep the road maintained. Husband + I are fighting about what to get. I want a dozer, but I hear they are not good in the snow and ice,but easier to run. Husband wants a backhoe loader to fix up the raod and put a blade on the front with chains on the wheels to plow. I think to plow and fix the road with what he wants will take longer to do and be more complicated to run.

I would like to hear the pros + cons of the two from people who own and have them. Snowplowing is the main concern here.
Thanks

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Jim

02-02-2003 05:08:31




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
I have a nice JD 450 w/6 way blade, and a full cab,80%undercarriage.E-mail if interested, Jim.



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Deas Plant.

02-01-2003 16:23:53




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
Hi, Lisa. Are you totally confused yet? If not, or maybe if you are, I have a further option for you to consider.
Move to sunny Queensland, Australia, where you ABSOLUTELY do not need any snow removal equipment.
I have lived all my life so far in Australia and the most snow I have ever seen was 6 inches on the roof of a VW minibus travelling along a highway 100 miles from the nearest snowfield --- and that was 1000 miles South of where I now live.

Happy snow removal -- or migration, as the case may be.
You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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jay

01-30-2003 13:49:07




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
Lisa, I live in Alaska (the cold part,-60)I have about a mile of drive way.I have crawlers, tractors but use a 74 ford 4x4. The faster you can go the better job you get.State plows travel about 50 m.p.h. --Jay



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jay

01-30-2003 13:47:26




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
Lisa, I live in Alaska (the cold part,-60)I have about a mile of drive way.I have crawlers, tractors but use a 74 ford 4x4. The faster you can go the better job you get.State plows travel about 50 m.p.h. --Jay



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JJS

01-28-2003 18:03:51




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
I would suggest a Front Wheel Assist AG tractor, with a loader and a good rear blade. something in the 80 hp range. With something that size you could push a lot of snow. In ice you could get a set of chains for the tires. A large selection of models and prices are out there My opinion


Joe



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Robert in W. Mi

01-29-2003 10:37:29




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 Re: Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to JJS, 01-28-2003 18:03:51  
third party image

Joe, I'm with you. I have a 450 crawler, BUT my snow pusher of choise is my FWA ag. tractor!! Crawlers are much too slow, and it gets "old" to have to deal with a lot of plowing at crawler speeds. With the blade on the loader arms, i can pile the snow higher than i'd ever need to!! I have the hydraulic function (remotes) on the loader arms to hydro swing the blade, but i always leave it straight. I've used a crawler for snow, but the ag. tractor is a better choise for me!! Robert

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Jeff

01-28-2003 13:01:49




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
Go with the dozer fixing the road in the non winter conditions will be hard with the back hoe.

Jeff



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JD in da UP

01-28-2003 05:19:43




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
No doubt in my mind, the snow isn't tearing off the plow frames. Get what works best to fix the road and keep snow off with a blower. A backhoe could be a liability and plowed snow banks can be pushed only so far. Dozer. Blower. JD



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Jim in Michigan

01-28-2003 12:15:44




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 Re: Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to JD in da UP, 01-28-2003 05:19:43  
JD,,where are you located,,I am also in the UP...Jim



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JD

01-29-2003 21:38:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Jim in Michigan, 01-28-2003 12:15:44  
Marquette County



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JD

01-29-2003 21:34:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Jim in Michigan, 01-28-2003 12:15:44  
Marquette County



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Jim in Michigan

01-30-2003 07:12:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to JD, 01-29-2003 21:34:29  
I am roughly 100 miles from you,,,I am in Ontonagon County,,,guess that makes us neighbors lol.,,,,Lot of snow there ? ,,,Jim



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Jd

01-31-2003 12:30:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Jim in Michigan, 01-30-2003 07:12:46  
Not much at the home place . Our woods in Alger county is full, I think. We have a 420c too. Could you imagine anybody paying over 7000 for one up here?



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Jim in Michigan

01-31-2003 14:57:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Jd, 01-31-2003 12:30:03  
I paid 1000 for mine and it came with a Farmall C and a Farmall Super C,,the 420 was seized though..but it is fine now,, great dozer,,,I cant believe what people give for equipment, I have seen 450 JD dozers listed for 15000 on here,,I have had chances at them for 4500 ,,guess I should buy all I can and sell them on here lol...Jim



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jeff

02-05-2003 17:35:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Jim in Michigan, 01-31-2003 14:57:37  
I live in the lower and I looking for a 420,430 440. Are there any in the upper near you for sale??? If so let me know I will come up and take a look. Also I am interesed in all 2cyl crawlers you run across up there.

Jeff



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Jim in Michigan

02-06-2003 05:38:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to jeff, 02-05-2003 17:35:00  
I dont knwo of any others around here,,,,Jim



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JD in da UP

02-06-2003 05:27:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to jeff, 02-05-2003 17:35:00  
There's just an old cletrac sitting by the highway here.



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Jd

01-31-2003 12:27:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Jim in Michigan, 01-30-2003 07:12:46  
Not much at the home place . Our woods in Alger county is full, I think. We have a 420c too. Could you imagine anybody paying over 7000 for one up here?



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Ken

01-27-2003 21:28:47




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
Well, I move snow in mountain ski areas and parking lots for a living in the winter...I own a D8 Cat, and a small Case dozer...Both these machines stay parked all winter...I have a 4 wheel drive F600 Ford, with a 10 1/2 foot angle plow, and a 4 wheel drive cab model 410 C John Deere with a quick detach funnel plow...these two get run hard all winter...when the banks get about 6 ft. high or so,, I also have an Oskosh SnoGo that my dad bought new in 1947, that baby will get rid of the banks, but it doesn't do well with rocks....you decide from here....

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jamie

01-27-2003 17:37:32




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
Well I have tried a truck (84 Suburban diesel 4x4) with an artic 8' plow, a cockshutt 540 with a 7' blower (underpowered). I am presently using a John Deere 1010C crawler loader/backhoe combination, kinda the best of both worlds. Cold though, however not nearly as cold as driving backwards at 11:00 pm blowing snow for 1 1/2 miles, in the dark !! My fantasy machine would be either a dedicated 1010 with a heated cab and snow tracks or a 4X4 pickup truck with a front mounted snowblower driven by an engine in the bed. Sigh, so many projects, so little time. The only scary part about the crawler is ice , I have slid a couple of times and it does make the heart stop for a second or two. A question for Lavoy, we use wood ash on the ice to take the "shine" off it, do you think that it would work with my crawler ?? I may get the chance to try this weekend, I will let you know.

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Lavoy

01-27-2003 21:18:44




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 Re: Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to jamie, 01-27-2003 17:37:32  
Don't know what the ash would do? One thing I did not say, is if you have a crawler with ANY type of street shoes/semi grouser be extremely careful on slopes whether sidehilling or straight up and down unless you have ice picks in the pads. I very nearly put a new door in the side of a gentlemans building when coming down an icy slope with his 350 Deere track loader, and to make matters worse, there was a $30,000 antique tractor on the other side of the wall where the new door would have been.
Lavoy

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Tom

01-27-2003 16:09:41




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
I'm with lavoy on this one, as far as the dozer is concerned.
Today I am looking at 48 inches of snow in the yard and this is not that unusual here, those sissy's down south that get 6 inches and call in the National Guard need to spend a year here in Northern Ontario. I have owned two backhoes and two dozers and I would say that if you really have to move snow you can't beat the dozer. The hoe will pile it to a certain extent but the dozer can push it up and over, and if the pile gets too big will push that as well. As far as road work that depends on whether you are going to have to dig up rocks and boulders. The IH 500 gas I just got this fall is a great little machine even in the bush for logging, but watch those tracks for loading up with snow and stretching. It can stop you dead. Should'nt be a problem ever for a driveway though. I'll email photo's if you have doubts.

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TimV

01-27-2003 15:38:00




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
Don't want to contribute to a family war, but I have owned and operated both, so I have a bit of experience. We plowed snow on our farm for years with an Oliver OC-4 dozer and for pushing power it had our replacement (1988 F250 4x4 with 7' Fisher plow) beat hollow. On the other hand, a heated cab is nice, particularly with Northern NY winter temps down to well below zero. The TLB setup will not be nearly as sturdy or powerful (from a traction, not necessarily horsepower) standpoint, but has the advantage of not being a "one-trick pony"--you can use it for many other things. If plowing and road grading are your major tasks, the dozer will probably be your best bet. Unless the hills are very steep, the dozer should not get you into too much trouble--just don't turn sideways on an icy hill. Of course, doing that is inadvisable with any vehicle, so it shouldn't be a big factor in your decision. As has been mentioned there are many other factors to consider--your budget being tops on the list. Neither of these pieces of equipment are cheap to own, operate, or repair, and both take some time to gain proficiency. Keep us posted--there are many helpful people on this board who can save you a lot of grief once you get to the point of purchasing a machine!

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gm

01-27-2003 14:52:28




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
I think for snow plowing stick with a
truck. You can get a heavier plow/frame,
like from a one ton truck, which shouldnt
break on you. The truck also should have heat and a radio, which is nice.

Of course, the blade/frame on a dozer probably
wont break on you ever :)

-Greg



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Lavoy

01-27-2003 14:38:41




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
Two guys for the TLB, so I'll jump in on the dozer side.
I plow snow with a small crawler, and it works just great. If you are running snowshoes on the tracks, they will not bind up with snow, they are specifically designed for running in the snow. As far as stability, if it is that icy, I seriously doubt that a two wheel drive TLB with chains is going to be more stable. Even a four wheel drive still has little weight on the steering axle and you will be steering it with the individual wheel brakes in marginal conditions.
A dozer will not dig in to the road, you just use skid shoes. I used to clean the snow away from our house every spring with a crawler and skid shoes and never had to fix the lawn if run correctly with the skid shoes all the way down.
Most dozers have an angle blade, and you can angle the blade, and move the snow to one or both sides of the road, plus if necessary, a dozer will plow snow as high as you have the guts to pile it. Bulldozed snow is firm enough to hold the crawler up, I have done it too many times to count.
If you need to slope the road at all, a power six say is the way to go.
As far as cost, if you buy a junk TLB or a junk dozer, they are both expensive to fix.
If you want to dig a narrow trench, load a truck or if high speed is a concern, then buy the TLB. If you have a dirt road, and need to push dirt, snow, trees, rocks, whatever, buy a machine that was designed to push.
Lavoy

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mark ct

01-27-2003 14:18:07




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
go with the loader backhoe. a dozer probably would be better for fixing the road but for snowplowing and everything else a dozer will suck. dozers are very dangerous on ice!! they can slide sideways unexpectedly and roll over. also the blade is too heavy to float and unless the ground is frozen hard it will dig into the gravel and make a heck of a mess. also dozers can get snow packed into the chains of the tracks so tightly that it can break the track if your not careful. another thing is that tracks wear out and are alot more expensive to replace than tires. think 1000 dollars worth of tires on a tractor is alot, well a dozer would be more like 3 or 4000 bucks to redo a worn undercarraige. dozers are great for earthmoving and grading but that is it. a loader backhoe would be the better choice in your case for all around versitility. also i dont see how a dozer is any easier to operate than a wheeled loader backhoe. i mean driving a loader backhoe is just like any other tractor or even close to a car or truck for that matter. driving a dozer is totaly different since they skid steer. yea anyone can turn one but an inexperienced operator can very easily tear up an undercaraige by improperly turning and operating one

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M.R.

01-27-2003 13:36:17




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 Re: Dozers versus Backhoe Loaders for Snowplowing?? in reply to Lisa, 01-27-2003 12:00:22  
Hi, Not too sure if one should step into this one. ;>}

A lot more may come into play into this purchase than what you have outlined. Location, amount of snow, wind, multipurpose, other needs, etc. I have both and I'm going to side with your other half for the Backhoe, as it may not do everything well - But will do 'everything' & less dollars to operate. One of the sweetest set-ups I've seen for snow plowiing is where they dropped the front bucket & mounted a plow from one of the state truck on with HYD. cylinders to angle the plow, the only disavanatage to this is that there is no bucketting or the ability to use the bucket to cam out with when stuck.

Backhoes tend to be top heavy if in hilly-terrain I would op for the OROP'S instead of a cab, 4x4, 4 in 1, extendahoe would also be high on the list.

PS. Once the road is revamped, think 'Snow-Blower'.

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