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JCB weak...any hydraulics experts???

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jeff ellermeyer

03-02-2003 21:18:14




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I recently bought a '96 JCB 214 series II backhoe. I was under the assumption that the JCB backhoe ran higher hydraulic pressures (3800 psi) than the Case, Deere and Ford thereby giving it the best "break away" power. So I was very surprised today when I gave it the first test. Digging out a pine tree stump the hoe curl function was weak. Lifting up the boom and the curled bucket would release to open position. Hardly any break away power. The crowd function was weak as well as it would hardly push the tractor backward. Also the extend a hoe function pulled out when pulling at the stump. Actuating the retract pedal would not stop it from pulling out! It seemed at times even the outriggers were weak in lifting the tractor. It was hard to tell about the main boom power because when you got a piece of the stump the bucket curl released and the boom lifted OK. The front loader seems to work strong enough as I can scoop a pretty good load of wet dirt with no problem.
So my question is ..... .what could be wrong? Since the loader seems strong enough does that eliminate the PUMP as the weak link? Could it be a relief valve on the valve block for the backhoe only that is bypassing the fluid? I am not impressed and want to solve this problem and make a digging machine out of it. I'm sure it once was!
Any ideas would sure be appreciated...any hydraulic experts around these parts..... ..???
Much obliged..... ..baron

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Paddy

03-12-2004 07:40:46




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 Re: JCB weak...any hydraulics experts??? in reply to jeff ellermeyer, 03-02-2003 21:18:14  
Jeff,
I hope you got your problem solved and I am hoping maybe you can help me out, I have a jcb also and it was piped for a rock breaker circut which isn't being used, I want to remove this circuit and all the associated pipework but it means re plumbing up some of the pipes, would you have a diagram of the pipe arrangement at the rear valve block or would you know where on the internet i would get one? The JCB dealers here (Ireland) are useless, they will not supply anything like the diagram to me unless I buy all the pipes for the rear block off them whether i need them or not at a lot higher prices than I can make them. thanks,
Paddy

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t4mike

03-06-2003 20:26:35




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 Re: JCB weak...any hydraulics experts??? in reply to jeff ellermeyer, 03-02-2003 21:18:14  
If it has filters - change them. Had the exact problem on a older JD hoe.



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jeff ellermeyer

03-06-2003 22:24:30




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 Re: Re: JCB weak...any hydraulics experts??? in reply to t4mike, 03-06-2003 20:26:35  
It does have one filter..... in the hydraulic oil tank..... it has been changed. This is basically one function that does not hold it's strength.....the bucket curl lets go and straightens out. If it is not internal leak in cylinder..... ..what is it????



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Greg

03-05-2003 18:52:20




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 Re: JCB weak...any hydraulics experts??? in reply to jeff ellermeyer, 03-02-2003 21:18:14  
Now I can finish what I didn`t at 4:00 this morning. Because of the fact you say the probem is with more than one circuit, port reliefs are not your problem as there is no common tie with port reliefs from one circuit to another. That leaves the main relif and the unloader as the common tie beween circuits. As you raise the loader and press the "turtle" rocker switch the speed should change within a second or so from normal to slow and back again as the switch is pressed. No there isn`t a time lag for it to work, just the short time I mentioned. If that isn`t working, you need to fix that before going further as the main system might be using just one pump. And no matter what the pressure is, there isn`t enough flow to work with. Steerng and extra dig should work fine as they are before the loader valve. I still think you are going to need the test fittings and a book.

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jeff

03-05-2003 22:30:01




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 Re: Re: JCB weak...any hydraulics experts??? in reply to Greg, 03-05-2003 18:52:20  
Yeah I need to test the pressures..... I need a test gauge that fits some wierd british thread I guess. Some of the aux relief valves ARV's are incorrect according to the book so those need to get adjusted (on the bench with a tool). The aux valve that operates the extra dig can be adjusted on the tractor according to the book.
But the turtle switch makes no difference when operating the loader like you said. I have to think though that it is in the dual pump mode already as all the functions of hydraulics (loader and excavtor) move very rapidly. Any ideas on fixing the turtle mode? The cubed fuse seems OK. You sound like you KNOW the JCB....do you own one?

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Greg

03-05-2003 03:10:33




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 Re: JCB weak...any hydraulics experts??? in reply to jeff ellermeyer, 03-02-2003 21:18:14  
Close guys, but not on target!!!! First off check that the little turtle button on the right side isn`t activated. What it does is dump one section of the pump. If you raise the loader bucket and push the switch it should cut the speed about in half, same with any other function except steering. The valve for this circuit is pilot operated with system hydraulic pressure that is solenoid contrlled in the loader valve body, it is located on the inside facing area of the valve. If it is leaking oil it can and will activate the unloder valve and that is located on the top front of the loader vave body. It is adjustable. You will also see a pressure test port on the loader valve, that is for the main relief valve, not the unloader valve. The main relief is located on the bottom front corner of ther loader valve. If you look under the machine along the frame there will be another test port, this is for the unloader valve and steering. It is before the priority valve for steering. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ADJUST, RESET OR OTHERWISE SCREW AROUND WITH THE PORT RELIF VALVES!!!!! !!! They are bench set and use a lower flow to set than the main relief or unloader. You will need an adapter to plug into the system and the manual. Better to have two plugged in at once, but it can be done with one gauge. Make sure any testing is done with the system at operating temperature and the tank is at proper level. Good luck and have fun.

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jeff ellermeyer

03-05-2003 09:15:38




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 Re: Re: JCB weak...any hydraulics experts??? in reply to Greg , 03-05-2003 03:10:33  
good tips..... ..when I switch the turtle valve..... no difference in hydraulic operation but someone told me unless it takes UNUSUALLY long time for instance for the swing arm to move back and forth it is probably not in the single pump section mode.....does this sound correct? The hoe WILL dig.....but whimpy strength I would say.....like my old ford 4500 is stronger! regards jeff



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AJ

03-04-2003 10:48:16




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 Re: JCB weak...any hydraulics experts??? in reply to jeff ellermeyer, 03-02-2003 21:18:14  
Bob has given you good advice,I am in the UK and the JCB is very common here but are badged different for the home market 2Cx 3Cx etc and I don't know which is yours,the basic circuit on a JCB is oil from the pump through the valve for the front loader then to the backhoe valve and return to tank.all rams have auxiliary valves for each movement except the two for the stablizers,all the system is controlled by a main valve mounted in the front valve block,there should be on that valve block the male half of a quick realease coupling where you can attach a pressure gauge,if you were setting the pressure you would first tighten up the adjuster fully on the main relief valve and check each ram movement on its own setting all the auxiliary relief valves at 3300 PSI and then the main valve against any movement at 3000 PSI,but before you go near the valves make sure that the ram seals on the bucket ram are not leaking and I don't mean oil coming out so you can see it they can leak inside and cause the problem you are having,
Don't prop up the loader or the hoe while you are working on any part of the hydraulics unless you have the proper safety bars,leave the gear on the ground and stay over it yourself
Good Luck
AJ
If your front end is working OK then the pump is OK

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jeff

03-04-2003 22:12:54




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 Re: Re: JCB weak...any hydraulics experts??? in reply to AJ, 03-04-2003 10:48:16  
Thank you sirs for the comebacks..... ..I will be cking the rams first for internal leakage..... regards jeff



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Bob/Ont

03-03-2003 18:36:43




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 Re: JCB weak...any hydraulics experts??? in reply to jeff ellermeyer, 03-02-2003 21:18:14  
Jeff I don't know much about JCB hyd's but it sounds like the line/port reliefs of some cylinders. Work it again and feel the cylinders with your hand, look for one hotter than the rest. A leaking cyl gets hot. If the bucket cyl is not leaking then it might be the line relief valve set low and blowing off allowing the bucket to open. You really nead a manual to test and adjust these though. That's all I can tell you.
Later Bob

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