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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Recommendation on medium sized loaders?

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Sean

11-05-2003 17:14:39

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I'm strongly considering purchasing a tracked loader to clear about 2-3 acres of wooded land on a 15 acre lot I bought. After buying trader mags, reading this forum and generally researching I think I have it narrowed down to these possible choices: CAT 931, 941, 955, 943, 933 Some of the Case models look good too, but it seems like most people think Cats are more reliable. The JD's seem very much lower priced but appear to have a poorer reliability rep. Basically I'm looking to be able to remove pretty big stumps, maybe 1 to 3 feet in diameter (with some effort, I don't expect to be able to doze them right over), clear a driveway, drag logs and grade. I dont want to go over $20k and would prefer to stay closer to $15k...but still want a very decent machine that will last and be reliable. My best guess right now is that a 941 would be good, but fear it might be bit small/weak and or will be so old it will be a nightmare to keep it running...what do you guys think?

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Will

12-24-2003 14:07:29

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Re: Recommendation on medium sized loaders? in reply to Sean, 11-05-2003 17:14:39

I did the same and bought a 941. I cleared a few acres of very steep and very mountainous land with 90% rock and stumps and not too much for dirt. One point in my driveway is 15 feet below grade. Some prefer the rear engine style, but on hills, the front engine weight is fine if you are aiming down hill on stumps or large rocks. I have carried rocks the size of the bucket up the mountain and used them in my never ending stone walls. IF I hired out the work, I never would have spent the time to make my land so nice, and would have spent the cost of several track loaders just in getting a road put in and minimal work for the site. Yes I spend many long days for a year moving rocks, but now that I am done, I miss the relaxing digging days dreaming on the track loader of my house verses some of the frustrations of finishing my house. My best advice is that you will like the one you get if it doesn't have too many troubles mechanically, and to enjoy the process of building your dreams. Will ps.. if you think you will sell it when you finish...yes you can get your same price back, but parting with such a friend is too hard for me still.

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VaTom

11-06-2003 09:43:57

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Re: Recommendation on medium sized loaders? in reply to Sean, 11-05-2003 17:14:39

Hi Sean, I've done exactly those things with my 933. One stump filled my 7'x12' truck bed. Had to load it pointed uphill, otherwise the stump picked up the rear of the tractor. A larger tractor will make the work a little, or a lot, faster but I had no trouble. My previous was a smaller JD that I could hardly keep final bearings in. The 933 is balanced. I push it to its limit and nothing breaks, unlike my JD. $15k? SURE! Come pick it up and I'll find another one for half that much. LOL Got a friend with a JD 450 who thinks I have more tractor. I know I wouldn't pay JD prices (his was almost twice the money). I've also heard good things about Komatsu but around here Cats are a lot easier to find. Ebay is where I've found manuals. Good luck.

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crawler

11-05-2003 17:51:50

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Re: Recommendation on medium sized loaders? in reply to Sean, 11-05-2003 17:14:39

Hello Sean. I own and operate a Komatsu D-31s, And I love it, it flat works awsome. I am an equipment operator by profession and have run alot of different critters. I bought the brand X and love it, parts are over the counter and readily available. You could probably find a fairly new machine mid to upper 90s for 15k to 20k. I bought mine for 5k its a 1980 and it just works like a champ. I couldnt afford what people were asking for wore out cats. I love Cat I Know they are fantastic, Just thought I would give you my Experience. Best of luck, I hope you get a good machine that lasts ya forever, whatever breed it may be. Crawler, Utah,

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Sean

11-06-2003 10:37:29

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Re: Re: Recommendation on medium sized loaders? in reply to crawler, 11-05-2003 17:51:50

Thanks to both you guys for your advice, this is a great forum and I'm really glad I found it. Crawler it sounds like you're very happy with your Komatsu, and that's terrific. I assume Komatsu is Japanese? If so I've always been very impressed with the quality and durability/reliability of Japanese machinery (especially autos and motorcycles). After visiting Japan this past summer for two months I now know why their products are so good. Very smart and hard working people who truly care about quality and work ethic. (and I don't mean to offend you south pacific WWII old timers!) However, I'm not familiar with the Komatsu line. I looked up a D-31S on the internet (not same year as yours though), it looks like a great machine. Is it on the order of a 943 or 953 in size? And I'm a longtime shade tree auto and mc mechanic...can these things be worked on by someone like me? And are the parts easily available and relatively cheap? (I know heavy equip stuff aint cheap, but relatively speaking?) How long have you used yours? Has it broken down on you? And VaTom, thanks for the input on the 933. I used to be a soils/concrete site engineer and I worked on many a job where they had 953 and 963 loaders. I was very impressed with what they could do. But obviously they are a bit out of my reach pricewise. I've seen 943's and 933's that I could probably afford though, so it's got me thinking. How much trouble was it for you to dig out those larger stumps? Is it a real time consuming hassle or does it just take a little patience? What is your attack strategy using a smaller loader on decent size stumps? Thanks to all in advance....

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VaTom

11-06-2003 14:33:46

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Re: Re: Re: Recommendation on medium sized loaders in reply to Sean, 11-06-2003 10:37:29

Sean, as the 933 is the largest I've used I don't have much for comparison. When there's enough hydraulic to pick up a 6 ton stump (chained to the bucket as the majority didn't fit in), there's enough machine to do some serious work. It's a lot easier to deal with the stumps with trees attached. That customer couldn't wait for me and cut off all the trees, leaving a mess that looked like pick-up sticks. With a smaller loader, you more often have to dig to cut a root or two, sometimes several. I also cut a new driveway across a 60* slope dealing with 80' hardwoods. You only get to work one side of them and the 933 struggled. Dig a hole to cut roots, fill in the hole, raise the bucket and push. If it didn't work, dig it again deeper. It worked and made my wife a happy woman. 933 survived the experience and is still chugging along. Bigger would have been easier, but the 933 fit my budget.

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Deas Plant.

11-07-2003 01:41:23

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Recommendation on medium sized loa in reply to VaTom, 11-06-2003 14:33:46

Hi, Sean. I work 941's, 943's and 953's for a crust these days and we get some pretty impressive work done with them. Even the older 941's are still going strong and parts are not a problem. The newer 941' and 953's are a bit more manouverable and a bit quicker across the ground but quicker equates to more track wear and the 941's will outpush the 943's simply because the 941 engine is at the front which aids traction a bit more than somewhat. If you are working in steep country, I would recommend the 943 as it is slightly wider and backs relatively easily out of places that have the 941 working. It will also pick up a bigger load facing downhill than the 941. A 4-in-1 bucket and a set of rippers are pretty much MUSTs for any loader doing the sort of work you describe. Somewhere around the 12 ton mark is a pretty fair size for this work too. The Komatsu D31S is a good machine as are its bigger brothers, the D41S, the D51S and the D53S. Again, parts don't seem to be much of a problem. Learning the abilities, strengths and limitations of whatever machine you are on and your own abilities, strengths and limitations as well is probably the most important aspect of operating any equipment, mobile or otherwise. Shady tree mechanical abilities are very handy when working with older machines but even more valuable is the ability to understand what effects whatever you are doing with the machine is having on the machine. In other words, develop a 'feel' for your machine. It can save you big bucks in repair bills. Hope this helps. You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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Sean

11-07-2003 08:08:03

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Recommendation on medium sized in reply to Deas Plant., 11-07-2003 01:41:23

VaTom glad to hear of your success with the 933. I guess the bottom line is that a 933 has the power but not quite as much ballast as the bigger machines...but in return its cheaper, easier to tow and more maneuverable. Sounds like you made it work for you just fine with a few coping strategies. Nice to know it can be done without too much trouble if I end up with a machine of that size. And Deas, thanks for the input. I've read through a lot of your posts on this forum and you're one knowledgeable dude (as we would say in the states). I never met an Aussie I didn't like, but then Yanks and Aussies have always got on well. Anyway, the information you provided on the 941 is great. When I look at pictures of that machine it just looks right for my budget and for it's size. The 953's and 963's are out of my league unfortunately. One thing that's curious though, is that it seems like 951's are really the same price as 941's (for similar age/condition), at least from what I've seen. You would think being bigger and more capable (and more expensive initially), they would command more money. But maybe it's just supply and demand and there are simply more of the larger machines. And a few more questions for you Deas if you don't mind...What precisely is the difference between the 951 and the 955? They look very similar, don't know what the diff is. Also, and this is a dumb question, what is a 4 in 1 bucket? It looks like a detachable bucket capable of dozing, scooping, ripping and??? Not sure what the whole deal is there, but really would like to know. Thanks to all in advance!

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Deas Plant.

11-08-2003 21:43:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Recommendation on medium s in reply to Sean, 11-07-2003 08:08:03

Hi, Sean. Firstly, thank you for your kind comments on my posts. My way of looking at it this: I have worked for over 40 years all up to gather that information and experience. I am looking at retiring in about 8 months - at age 60 instead of the normal 65 here DownUnder - and if I can help other people get less skinned knuckles, egos or bank accounts by sharing that knowledge, it is worth my time and effort to do it. And I will continue to do so as long as people continue to make me feel like it is worth it. 941 Vs 951: The 951 is slightly larger and heavier and noticeably more powerful that the 941 but not up in the power league of the 955, although it was a fair bit 'nippier' than the the 955. I have no experience of the original series 951's. The 951B's did have some over-heating problems in some operating environments, in some cases to the point where they were a bit of a disaster in really hot weather. The 951C's were a totally different kettle of fish. The one my current employer had, you could NOT get it to get anywhere near over-heating. It eventually cracked a final drive housing. After welding it up twice and having it crack again, he welded it up a third time and traded it on a 941. This is NOT a common fault with the 951C's. I also suspect that, had I been allowed to weld it instead of being kept out in the field on a machine, it would have survived. This is not trumpet-blowing, just MHO. The 951's looked a lot more like the 941's that they did like the 955s and were noticeably smaller side by side, closer to the 941 in size than they were to the 955. The 951C's will use a fair bit more fuel in a day than 941's but you would be well and truly able to see the difference in the work done. It would be similar to the difference between the 943's and the 953's. I run a 953B which uses around 130 litres - approx. 35 gals U.S. - per day compared to the 943's at around 90 litres - approx. 25 gals U.S. - per day. The 953 will out-produce the 943 by anything up to half, even more in really hard going. You only have to put the two of them climbing the same hill side by side. The 953 will walk right away from the 943, either backwards or forwards. TimV has explained the 4-in-1 bucket pretty well in the post below. It IS worth bearing in mind in any dealings you might have with 4-in-1 buckets that they are NOT as strong as a standard/general purpose bucket. It pays to think about how what you are doing with a 4-in-1 bucket might be affecting the bucket and act accordingly. Because they are so versatile, they are well and truly worth looking after. Unless the mchine is fitted with a quick-coupler arrangement, neither general purpose nor 4-in-1 buckets are readily detachable. The difference is a bit like a T-handle and a single socket compared to the full socket box. If you want to e-mail me, I will send you a couple of photos showing 4-in-1 buckets compared with general purpose ones. Or you can click on the link below, select 'Used Machinery', wait for the page to refresh, select 'Loaders', wait for the page to refresh, in 'Sub-Type', select 'Crawler Loaders' and 400 in 'Number Of Records' and browse the results. You will see a wide range of different makes and models of track loaders and a mix of general purpose and 4-in-1 buckets. Have fun. Hope this helps. You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

ConstructionHub

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Sean

11-09-2003 17:47:09

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Recommendation on medi in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 21:43:18

Deas,
Thank you for your detailed and thorough response. I really enjoy learning about these loaders, and appreciate you going the extra mile and providing such valuable and wise advice. I know I speak for most others on this forum when I say your input is very useful and serves as an invaluable resource. So the 955 is larger than the 951 and the 951 is not much larger than the 941. And the 951B had some overheating problems...although I know Australia has an awful lot of desert (how the aboriginal peoples survived there is beyond me!). Did the overheating problems mostly occur in desert like conditions? Or merely commonly found round the world summer weather? So not sure if a B model would experience those troubles in a Maryland climate, but certainly something to consider. And the 4 in 1 bucket sounds like what I need, but by looking at the pics they have the appearance of being somewhat flimsy. Are they truly up to the task of digging out tough stumps without being bent or otherwise pranged? And another thing that is odd to me is that I've never seen a 4 in 1 bucket on all the contruction sites I've been on...and I've been on probably hundreds (up until the early 90's). Maybe there were some there I just wasn't observant...but I used to watch 953's and 963's working all the time and never recall seeing one. Lastly thanks to you and TimV for providing the excellent pics and description of the 4 in 1...TimV indicated that the bucket is hydraulically activated - but I dont see any rams that apear to be connected to the bucket hinge...are the rams mounted on the backside of the bucket where you cant see them? It just looks from all the pics Ive seen that the bucket is simply hinged and does not have actuators on it. Well I don't want to run on too much or beat a dead horse, so thanks again to all for the fantastic input! Sean

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TimV

11-09-2003 19:17:28

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Recommendation on in reply to Sean, 11-09-2003 17:47:09

Sean: First and foremost, let me apologize for posting such a large picture, and forcing everyone to scroll side-to-side to read the responses! I didn't realize it was going to be THAT big until it was already up. On the other hand, there is one advantage to being large--it's pretty detailed, complete with a quick coat of paint thrown over top of some pretty serious rust and dings on the bucket. If you look closely at the near side of the bucket, you will see the hoses that lead to the hydraulic cylinder that works the clamshell. I'm guessing that this particular setup has the cylinder setting vertically along the back side of the bucket, until the cylinder is extended.

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TimV

11-09-2003 13:24:43

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Recommendation on medi in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 21:43:18

Sean: Here's a picture of a 4 in 1 bucket.

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TimV

11-08-2003 16:50:24

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Recommendation on medium s in reply to Sean, 11-07-2003 08:08:03

Sean: A 4 in 1 bucket is basically a clam-shell bucket. There is a second set of hydraulic cylinders on the side of the bucket that allow it to open like the old steam-shovel scoops. This lets you adjust the bucket to use as a dozer, a ripper, a regular bucket, or a thumb (pinch) setup, depending on what you are doing. They're generally not quite as strong as the "rock service" buckets, but are MUCH more versatile.

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