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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Turning pins and bushings and Berco sprocket quest

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Sean

12-18-2003 14:14:33




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Hi, I'm looking over a machine now that may need to have its pins and bushings turned. According to the measurements I've made, it looks as if one side of the track is down close to the 25% wear remaining (the other side is closer to 50%). The wear chart says to turn pins and bushings at 25%, which brings up the following questions: 1. How much does it cost to have the pins and bushings turned?
2. Do you have to have the loader delivered to the shop, or do they normally send a person to your location to do it? 3. After turning the bushings and pins, will this effectively shorten the chain and essentially be like starting out with a new chain again? (as far as pins and bushings are concerned) And lastly, I noticed that the loader I'm looking at (which is 35 years old) has "Berco" written on the sprockets. Did Berco provide sprockets to International so that a new machine (back in '69) would have come with these sprockets? Or are the Berco sprockets an indication that the sprockets were replaced somewhere down the line? Thanks in advance...

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Brokenwrench

12-18-2003 18:30:16




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 Re: Turning pins and bushings and Berco sprocket q in reply to Sean, 12-18-2003 14:14:33  
The cost will vary depending on the number of pins to be pushed,whether it is dry pin or sealed and lubricated pins,a dry pin turn runs $4-600+ on a small tractor,pad bolts will be extra. If you can get the tracks off,most shops will pick them up,or they will also pick up the machine and do the whole job.If you are inexperienced in undercarriage work,let the track shop look at the machine, they can recommend if the rails need to be built up,rollers need to be replaced or reshelled,or idlers need to be built up or replaced,they will also probably recommend replacing the sprockets. Sprockets should be replaced so that the new bushings are not running agaist worn sprockets causing premature wear.

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Bob

12-18-2003 16:59:36




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 Re: Turning pins and bushings and Berco sprocket q in reply to Sean, 12-18-2003 14:14:33  
Sean, Berco is an after market supplier. The indication would be that these have been changed. Check your manual for the correct dims. as sometimes for purposes of availability different sprockets and rails are installed. Good luck...



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ED

12-19-2003 05:37:05




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 Re: Re: Turning pins and bushings and Berco sprock in reply to Bob, 12-18-2003 16:59:36  
Bob BERCO is also an OEM supplier it may not said berco on them but they are . I believe they still are the oem for Deere



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ED

12-18-2003 16:45:05




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 Re: Turning pins and bushings and Berco sprocket q in reply to Sean, 12-18-2003 14:14:33  
Sean It all depends on what you are doing with the machine most guys use them alot first year then after that just once in awhile i would rather see them turned and saving the spocket and keeping the track in further on the rail. I have four presses and i have the tracks come to me i think there were more mobile track presses years ago when there was more track work around it would depend on the area i guess. I am a berco dealer and they do make many oem tracks but chances are that is a replacement

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marlowe

12-18-2003 15:42:03




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 Re: Turning pins and bushings and Berco sprocket q in reply to Sean, 12-18-2003 14:14:33  
1 as to cost about 400.00 give or take a little 2 i take my tracks in but they do have mobile presses 3 it will shorten the chain up but will not tighten the side slop 4 berco is a after market suppler of track parts [they do some oem] one thing is that if your going to do the pins and bushings replace them. turning is good on real big stuff but on the little ones it don't work real will and they don't last real long

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Sean

12-19-2003 07:36:20




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 Re: Re: Turning pins and bushings and Berco sprock in reply to marlowe, 12-18-2003 15:42:03  
Thanks to everyone for the helpful advice. If new links and pins and bushings (i.e. a new chain without grousers) are purchased how much $$ are they? How much are new sprockets? And are those parts even available for a '69 IH150 anymore?



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Len Sholes

12-19-2003 10:12:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Turning pins and bushings and Berco sp in reply to Sean, 12-19-2003 07:36:20  
Sean, re your questions on your rails and sprockets. First I have to ask you how did you measure the links. With the two different measurements you say you got it would appear to me that you did not have the tracks tight when took your measurement over 5 links. Or did you have the master pin included in this dimension? The best way to tigheten the track is to put an old track pin or similiar item in the sprocket and back up to take all the slack out of the rail. The reason I mention about measuring over the master pin is that if at some time it has been replaced then you could be getting a false reading. What are the condition of the busings ie cracks, excessive pin boss wear on the end of the links? One other bit of information for you if you decide to remove the tracks your self and that is to make sure you put a pin in the sprocket, slack off the fitting on the track adjuster and back the machine up to draw the idlers back as far as they will come. If not when you go to button up your reconditioned rails you will find they are to short. Usually when you have your p&b turned you will be looking at the cost of a half set of hardware. This will depend on the condition of yours. You should also count the number of links you have on each track to make sure this number coincides with what the manufacturer states. More than one person has removed a link when the rails get worn in order to be able to keep the tracks tight. Berco along with other manufacturers build undercarriage for crawler machines. In a lot of cases it gives the customer an alternative when it comes to replace it dollar wise. However in my expierence you are not comparing apples to apples. As for costs of turning or a set of new rails you should check in your local area as costs vary. I am not familiar with a IH150 so can not comment on the avialability of sprockets. You might want to see if you can get sprocket rims and have them welded onto your hubs. I hope I haven't confused you with this but undercarriage management is a major item on crawler machines. Wear is caused by relative motion and once you start to move a crawler machine, guess what, wear starts to take place so you need to start to put monies aside for the day that you need to either repair it or replace it.

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Sean

12-19-2003 10:47:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Turning pins and bushings and Berc in reply to Len Sholes, 12-19-2003 10:12:46  
Thanks Len, I tightened the tracks before measuring by putting a piece of 4"x4" between the sprocket and track and then backed up slightly until the chain was relatively taught. It wasn't quite as tight and straight as I would have liked because the tracks were a bit rusty (from not being used recently) and impregnated with frozen mud. I could barely see a slight crook in a few of the grouser pads indicating they weren't absolutely straight, but still pretty straight. So I figure the measurements I took were not extremely accurate and are probably somewhat more "lenient" than what a really good measurement would be...i.e. my measurements were probably slightly shorter than what the actual 4 link length is. And I know I didn't include the master link on one side (I could clearly see the pin on it) and am almost certain I didn't include it on the other side (although I couldn't find the pin because of the frozen mud). You ask about the conditon of the bushings and pin boss wear. I didn't see any cracks on the links or any obvious problem with the pins. But honestly there was packed frozen mud up in the links and pins that made it hard to really see the whole story. The owner did say that when he was rebuilding the tractor that the pins have not been turned and have no wear on their alternate side, and the wear on the drive side was moderate. Hope I don't sound naive, but he definitely seems honest to me, so I'm pretty sure this is the case (i.e. the pins are not trashed). But then again, he is not what I would consider a crawler "expert" (more of an enthusiast), so his opinion and assessment are probably subject to error.

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