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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

AC diesel engine compression check

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week N warrior

01-03-2004 08:59:40




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I have an Allis Chalmers 11000 diesel engine that I'm going to have to pull to replace the oil pan. Before I do I want to check the compression to see if I need to go though the engine. The overhaul kit is about $1600 so I don't want to do it if not needed. The engine will only crank if starting fluid is sprayed in it first. Then it seems to run good but won’t idle. Injectors probably need cleaning. I thought all diesel engines had Glow plugs. But I don't see any on the engine. Does it not have them? How would I check the compression? Though the injector holes? Anyone know what the compression should be for this engine? I have the Owners, Shop and Parts manuals and none of them say what the compression should be. Nor do they minion Glow plugs. Anyone using one of these engines? Carl

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jim kalbfell

02-06-2006 08:07:07




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 Re: AC diesel engine compression check in reply to week N warrior / MO, 01-03-2004 08:59:40  
my kubota in a 93' bobcat is blowing the 30amp fuse constantly. is this a defective glow plug symptom, or a wiring problem?



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Chris Brown

01-03-2004 16:33:59




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 Re: AC diesel engine compression check in reply to week N warrior / MO, 01-03-2004 08:59:40  
Just becaues you have to ether it does'nt always mean it is worn out. I had an Allis tractor with the 426T diesel engine and it always had to be ethered to start the first time. I cahnged the injector pump twice before I got a good un. The supply pump would'nt pump enough pressure to feed the pump at cranking speeds. Just something to look at. The roosa master pumps have a port to test supply pressure.

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Trying to help.

01-03-2004 16:08:11




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 Re: AC diesel engine compression check in reply to week N warrior / MO, 01-03-2004 08:59:40  
Take the exhaust manifold off and try to start it when cold. If your cranking speed is up to par and you see a lot of white/grey smoke comming out of each port you do not have enough heat to ignite the fuel. If just a couple of cylinder do this as the engine starts, take the injection nozzles out of those cylinders and switch them with ones that do not emit the white smoke. If the smoke stays with the nozzle you have a nozzle problem. If it stays with the cylinders, you have a compression problem. You may be able to make a cylinder leakage test easier than doing a compression test. What is this engine in?

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week N warrior / MO

01-04-2004 10:40:52




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 Re: Re: AC diesel engine compression check in reply to Trying to help., 01-03-2004 16:08:11  
Thanks, That sounds like a good idear. Only thing is, I'm thinking they might all be bad. This engine has not been run much for a long time. It's in a TL-30D loader. Probably made in the mid 60s. Guess maybe I should plan to pull the heads for a looky. Main problem right now is I haven't quiet figured how I'm going to pull the engine. It's going to take a pretty high lift. then I'll need to be able to get it over to the side to let it down. I'll rig up something. Carl

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Bob/Ont

01-03-2004 10:57:51




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 Re: AC diesel engine compression check in reply to week N warrior / MO, 01-03-2004 08:59:40  
Is there much oil slobbering out of the exhaust ports? If oil and dirt are accumulating around the joint with the cyl head you are likely using a lot of oil too. That's a good indication of your engine's condition. The hard starting as well as poor idleing makes me think you need to get the injection pump and nozzels reconditioned. Glowplugs are used mainly in older Precombustion Chamber direct electric start diesels, Cat and IHC. Intake manifold heaters are common now. Later Bob

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week N warrior / MO

01-04-2004 10:24:57




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 Re: Re: AC diesel engine compression check in reply to Bob/Ont, 01-03-2004 10:57:51  
I've only drove it home since getting it. About one mile. It was running good and not smoking till hafe way home. Then it started smoking and blowing oil rel bad. I think it blew a seal in the turbo that caused that. It had been setting unused for a longe time before I got it. Carl



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Bob/Ont

01-04-2004 12:20:43




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 Re: Re: Re: AC diesel engine compression check in reply to week N warrior / MO, 01-04-2004 10:24:57  
Carl, get the turbo repaired first, even before you run it anymore. Don't want the turbo to dump it's cookies into the engine. Change the engine oil and filter and work it as hard as you can, then see how it runs. If you get white puffs of smoke in the exhaust, crack the fuel lines one at a time untill they go away. That will tell you if a cyl is not fireing and then swap nozzles as someone else has said to see if it's the cyl or nozzle. Later Bob

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RAB

01-03-2004 10:44:46




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 Re: AC diesel engine compression check in reply to week N warrior / MO, 01-03-2004 08:59:40  
Usually only smaller indirect injection diesels have glow plugs. Direct injection usually use some form of manifold heater for very cold weather starting. Probably better to compare cylinders using a compressed air supply into injector holes. Can give an indication of how good and also where it is leaking to (valves or pistons). You need the right kit to check otherwise, as very high pressures are involved and safety is an issue. Pulling the head would presumably not be too expensive and if sump is also coming off, you should be able to check for top and bottom end wear before investing in an overhaul kit. You can also get an idea of bearing/crank wear before pulling it apart - pressure oil test or just see if oil pressure comes up to specs. Regards, RAB

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real diesels

01-03-2004 09:12:25




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 Re: AC diesel engine compression check in reply to week N warrior / MO, 01-03-2004 08:59:40  
most real diesels don't have glow plugs



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331_man_wv

01-03-2004 15:17:44




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 Re: Re: AC diesel engine compression check in reply to real diesels, 01-03-2004 09:12:25  
(most real diesels don't have glow plugs) Thats the oldest and biggest bunch of bullshit that was ever told . Kubota International. Yanmar , Perkins, All use glowplugs on diffrent modles of their engines . It Should be this any indirect injected DIESEL's have glow plugs



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jdemaris

01-03-2004 18:10:56




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 Re: Re: Re: AC diesel engine compression check in reply to 331_man_wv, 01-03-2004 15:17:44  
Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing. My 87 Suburban diesel has glow plugs, and I've got 450,000 miles on it. Like a darn fool, I've been using diesel fuel in it all these years. Same goes for my 2010 Deere, 6.9 diesel Ford truck, 90 Chevy Blazer 6.2 diesel, B-275 I.H. tractor, and Bobcat skidsteer with a Kubota diesel. Guess my only "real" diesels are my Allis HD4 and HD6.



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Alvin n Ms.

01-04-2004 08:06:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: AC diesel engine compression check in reply to jdemaris, 01-03-2004 18:10:56  
Where are the glow plugs located on cats, cummings, fords, They are what I call diesels. Buy glow plugs by the truck load. Link . alvinnms



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jdemaris

01-04-2004 10:11:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC diesel engine compression c in reply to Alvin n Ms., 01-04-2004 08:06:11  
Well . . . my 1985 Ford truck has eight glow plugs and I haven't changed one yet. As to your question as to "where are they?" Well, they're in the engine. Hope that clears things up for you. In regard to buying them by the truck load - My Suburban with 450,000 miles had one change of glow plugs. The new ones made by Delco or Beru are almost indestructable. You can call anything, anything you wish. I prefer to call diesels any engine that uses the principle that Rudolph Diesel invented during the late 1800s. That is, an engine that uses compression for ignition. I've been a diesel mechanic most of my life. I see benefits and drawbacks to both designs, i.e. indirect injection with precombustion chambers and glow plugs . . . or direct injection that may or maynot use a preheater in the intake manifold. I thrown out just as many direct-injection sleeves and pistons ruined by overuse of ether as I have burned out glow plugs. Fact is, there are many very good diesels of both designs. Also, some very bad ones of both designs. In the mean time, foolish or not, I will continue to use diesel fuel in my engines that have glow plugs including Kubota, Deere, and Ford/I.H. and Isuzu.

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Alvin n Ms.

01-04-2004 16:36:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC diesel engine compressi in reply to jdemaris, 01-04-2004 10:11:44  
I guess glow plugs are better than I thought. The ones in the Olsmobile 350 back in 1980 gave me a bad impression. Thanks, alvinnms



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jdemaris

01-04-2004 17:21:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC diesel engine compr in reply to Alvin n Ms., 01-04-2004 16:36:22  
I agree 100%. The original Delcos glowplugs, as were used in the G.M. 350 diesels (made from Oldsmobile gas engine design) were awful. In fact, if you buy a new Champion or Autolite today for a moden engine, they're still just as bad. If they get heated more than 10 seconds, they've had it. If they burst and fall into the engine, it too may get wiped out. The newer Delcos, Motorcrafts, and Berus are different. Basically, they have an internal current limiter. Motorcraft buys their plugs from Beru and puts their name on them. I wouldn't be surprised is Beru actually makes them FOR Delco too, but I have no knowledge of that. If you had a 350 diesel, you probably had problems other than glowplugs. I was working for Deere dealer when G.M came out with the engine. The local Chevy dealer didn't know how to work on them. So . . . for a while we were working on a lot of G.M. 350s. In reality there was no "fix" to them short of scrapping them. Changed head gaskets left and right and built Roosa Master injection pumps ad nauseum. My boss bought a brand new 79 pickup and babied it - and he was able to squeeze 70,000 miles out it before head gaskets started blowing every month. That was pretty good for that engine. I think that endeavor cured G.M. of making any more diesels, and they turned around and hired Detroit Diesel to design the 6.2.

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331_man_wv

01-04-2004 12:30:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC diesel engine compressi in reply to jdemaris, 01-04-2004 10:11:44  
Very well said



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WV _331_man

01-06-2004 11:25:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC diesel engine compr in reply to 331_man_wv, 01-04-2004 12:30:43  
350 diesels (made from Oldsmobile gas ) Thats another load of crock the 350 was diesel from ground up it was not a gasoline engine. Bout the only guys thats been doing that for years has been VW's And after owning them ill never go to a Gas converted diesel again . Just like everytime i turn around someone trys to bash me with my 1988 3/4 ton gmc withb the 6.2 Detroit Diesel , they say why dont ya just convert that thing back to gas i. just look and say ok smarta55 where do you suppose i find GM 379 Gas block parts , Their wernt any 379 gas engines

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