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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Changing from pony to electric start

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Jay White

01-08-2004 05:16:18




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I have looked at a couple of older cat machines and was wondering if the pony motor could be taken off and replaced by an electric starter. I know the pony motors are not cheap to fix. Any coments wil be appreciated. Jay White Belle Plaine Ks




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thurlow

01-10-2004 06:26:58




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 Re: Changing from pony to electric start in reply to Jay White, 01-08-2004 05:16:18  
Jay; in one of the recent Farm Show magazines, there was an article about a fellow in Jerome, MO, who sells "kits" to do this; $795---$1200 depending on model and options.....



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OldCatMan

01-08-2004 20:48:34




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 Re: Changing from pony to electric start in reply to Jay White, 01-08-2004 05:16:18  
If you want it to start everytime stay with the pony. Have run these old things since back in the 30's. Started off with the old gas/diesel IHC's without starters of any kind except crank. With a pony you can always get the main started no matter what the weather is or no matter how low your battery is. We carry a rope for the times when the battery is too low to start the pony. Byron



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Wayne

01-08-2004 16:11:26




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 Re: Changing from pony to electric start in reply to Jay White, 01-08-2004 05:16:18  
Hey jay, Brokenwrench is right about the cost. We're in the process of conmverting a D311 out of a 212 grader for a customer. The cost to rebuild the poney was gonna be several hundred more than the cost to convert. When all's said and done I believe it's gonna run close to $1500. If you need parts or tech help you can try Ironpeddlers, right outside Charlotte, NC. Our flywheel housing had a cast place for a starter but no hole. They had the template to be able to machine the hole in the proper place, so their doing that part of it for us. We've dealt withn them a good bit over the years and they have always been more than happy to help out when they can.

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Brokenwrench

01-08-2004 14:04:25




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 Re: Changing from pony to electric start in reply to Jay White, 01-08-2004 05:16:18  
To do the conversion correctly,with new nozzel holders for glow plugs,glow plugs,switches,starter,alternator,brackets,batteries and labor is more than it costs to overhaul the pony motor. An electric start conversion will easily run in excess of $2000.00



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Alvin n Ms.

01-08-2004 06:25:10




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 Re: Changing from pony to electric start in reply to Jay White, 01-08-2004 05:16:18  
Posted by Toby on February 24, 2001 at 18:49:48 from (209.240.224.226): In Reply to: Pony Motor on old CATS posted by Gary OC 46 on January 28, 2001 at 08:26:28: I've overhauled a couple of old Cat D2 pony motors and have found a couple of weak points in them myself. The worst I've seen can be caused by the carburetor. The seat on the inlet needle becomes worn and lets gas leak into the crakcase, thinning the oil. I've found it best to forget about the on/off switch and just turn the gas off at the tank as a means of stopping the engine. The other is the primitive splash lubrication system. To work properly, the pony motor should be allowed to warm itself thoroughly before put to work. This ensures the oil has had time to find its way to all of the critical lubrication points of the motor before they are put under any stress, thus prolonging the life of the engine itself. Posted by Len on January 30, 2001 at 13:50:07 from (208.190.196.148): In Reply to: Pony Motor on old CATS posted by Gary OC 46 on January 28, 2001 at 08:26:28: Gary OC 46, The pony engine is a 10 HP gas which originally was started with a pull rope. Latter electric starter motors were installed on some pony engines. The pony engine warmed up the diesel engine with it's exhaust gases, or in some cases it's cooling water. Also allowed diesel engine oil pressure to build up before ingition. With a little maintenance on your pony you can start your big engine anywhere and in any temperature. You can let the pony warm up the iron in -0 weather as long as needed to get the diesel to fire. Gary, most people have trouble with everything they don't pay attention to--even their families!! Posted by Pete on August 22, 2003 at 07:08:19 from (152.163.252.228): In Reply to: D-4 direct electric posted by Brian on August 21, 2003 at 13:01:20: Brian -- I'm no expert, but was recently faced with a similar decision with my D6. What I came away with is essentially: Pros of direct electric -- Much less complicated starting procedure. Once installed, less to maintain/go wrong. If something does go wrong, parts are easier. Cons -- Ether in cold weather -- and even then might not start, or have to fit precombustion chambers with glow plugs. Harder on diesel (with pony, diesel is warm and oil pressure is up before firing.) Have to convert electrical system & fabricate battery boxes. Not original. In my case, I spent about $1800 to totally rebuild the pony and magneto, and now it is wonderful -- works just like Cat says it is supposed to. I'm told that an electric conversion would be about the same $, so given the fact that I'm in a moderately cold climate and prefer to keep things original, I kept the pony. If your diesel is in questionable shape, do you even want the machine in the first place. If you do, a pony will just keep spinning a marginal diesel until it has no choice but to fire off, where as an electric starter only has so many spins in it -- if your diesel is tired you may have to ether it to get her to fire off. Of course, I don't have to tell you that ether is bad on engines and (my opinion at least) should only be used in the most sparing amounts, and only as a patch to get you by 'till rebulid time. Pony parts are available, although sometimes expensive. The acmoc website is an excellent resource for parts and expertise. Hope this helps a little. Pete

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Billy NY

01-08-2004 17:49:08




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 Re: Re: Changing from pony to electric start in reply to Alvin n Ms., 01-08-2004 06:25:10  
I think Alvin covered it, I agree with keeping the pony for the benefits listed above. I have seen a lot of people switching on the ACMOC site lately, which I would assume should make some more parts available etc. They are low tech. old school little gas engines, but if kept in good working order, I don't think an electric starter can compare in cold weather, especially when considering what it takes to start the motor on my D-7 in 10-20 deg F weather, I've never fooled with it below 10 F. No ether, just spin it in low gear, ( 2 speed transmission is a big help ) then turn the compression on, to warm the cylinders, let it spin long enough to warm the coolant, get oil prssure, then switch to high gear, compression & fuel on, fires immediately, everytime, so far down to 10 deg F. What is hard to understand is how an electric starter could possibly work on say a D-8800 4 Cyl engine in a D7, when its bitter cold, you'd fry the starter ( I would think ) from turning it over so long, or so many times intermittently, and your batteries would defintitely weaken quickly. In warmer weather, probably perform OK, but it's hard to imagine much success in bitter cold, with these old class of engines. Obviously as time progressed, things have changed but being able to prep the big motor like the pony set up allows you to do, must help in the longevity dept. significantly. In warm weather the direct start probably works OK on a motor in decent shape, but to be able to spin that diesel, get the fluids moving and warm, oil pressure up, before turning on the compression lever and fuel is a big advantage for these old tech. diesels. I think thats why quite a few are still around. I read somewhere, maybe here, where someone did the conversion and did not like the way it functioned, so they put the pony back on ! Probably in a cold climate, but what's right for some is not right for all, so each to their own, ( read a lot of discussions on the subject, great to hear both sides no matter what the topic ) Always watch for gas thinning the oil, drain your carb as soon as it's shut down, I put a petcock and hose where the drain plug hole is on the bowl on the D7, much faster than waiting for it to run out of gas and you know the bowl is empty, don't let the main overspeed the little guy, keep the oil clean & changed in them, use solid wire core plug wires, correct plugs, keep your mag in good shape, and your sediment bowl clean. They are reliable, just more work to maintain in good running order, IMHO.

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