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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

350B still no start.

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SteveB

01-28-2004 13:45:31




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Well I spent the better part of my day off trying to chase this electrical problem. I ruled out bad key switch and bad pushbutton switch, I also discovered neutral saftey is by passed, thats o.k., It's been working fine that way. I removed every harness and fitting and went over all connections. Every thing looks good? The only way she will run is if I Jump 12V direct to injector and arc start solonoid with scewdriver. What else can I check? will a bad electronic module on back of dash cause this? How do I check It? I am chasing my tail.

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Hurley J. D.

02-04-2004 14:59:56




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 Re: 350B still no start. in reply to SteveB, 01-28-2004 13:45:31  
Did you get the machine going? What was the problem and how was it solved?



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JD dozer mike

01-29-2004 17:59:47




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 Re: 350B still no start. in reply to SteveB, 01-28-2004 13:45:31  
Sounds like to me that the selenoid is bad OR. Is the selenoid "clicking" when you push the start button;key switch:? If no, maybe the selenoid activator wire is bad or start button is bad. To test : run a small 14 ga or so wire to the activator post and listen for a click. No click probably means the selenoid is bad. If it DOEs click ,test to see if there is resistance on the large posts while selenoid is in contact position (while clicked) If no resistance selenoid is bad.

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SteveB

01-29-2004 18:18:49




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 Re: Re: 350B still no start. in reply to JD dozer mike, 01-29-2004 17:59:47  
Solonoid is not clicking, Things where erratic befor it just quit working. Sometimes I would push the button a few times befor it would catch and start.



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jdemaris

01-29-2004 19:15:17




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 Re: Re: Re: 350B still no start. in reply to SteveB, 01-29-2004 18:18:49  
If your solenoid was bad it wouldn't work any better when you jump the terminals with a screwdriver. If the solenoid IS acting up, the contacts inside of it are reversable, so replacement is not usually necessary (flip the disk over and turn the contact stud 180 degrees).



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Tim in OR

01-29-2004 14:11:19




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 Re: 350B still no start. in reply to SteveB, 01-28-2004 13:45:31  
This is where i LIKE TO USE A 12v. test light. I start at the source and check at all the connection points till I find "No Light". I then know that the problem is inbetween the last point that I had light and the first point that I don't have light. Its the quickest way for me. Tim in OR



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Hurley J. D.

01-29-2004 16:16:19




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 Re: Re: 350B still no start. in reply to Tim in OR, 01-29-2004 14:11:19  
Steve take a wire and jump from the hot side of the switch to the terminal that is marked iginition. See if dozer will crank. The safety switch and the fuel solenoid are on the iginition side of the iginition switch as is also the start button. If this works then you can figure the iginition switch is bad. I am looking at a elec schematic for a 450b and the 350b should be the same. If this does not work then try wiring the jumper you used from the injector pump to the battery that you used to crank the dozer with to the iginition terminal of the iginition switch side and see what happens if it cranks now then you know that you have a break between the Injector pump and the iginition switch, probable a problem in the bulkhead conn.

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Pete/ME

01-29-2004 03:20:25




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 Re: 350B still no start. in reply to SteveB, 01-28-2004 13:45:31  
Behind the dash on my straight 350 there's a little metal box that's wired. No idea what it is or does. Anything electric is beyond me, if you've got one of these, you might check it out, or just replace it.



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jdemaris

01-28-2004 18:16:33




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 Re: 350B still no start. in reply to SteveB, 01-28-2004 13:45:31  
I'm not sure exactly what all you checked and/or how you did it. The 350 has pretty simple wiring and there is no "electronic module" behind the dashboard that I can think of. Power (positve) comes from the battery, through the shut-off/disconnect switch and on to the big post on the starter solenoid. Seems you've already ascertained there is power to this point. Then, a fairly heavy wire (8 or 10 gauge) runs from the big solenoid post via the wire-harness and connector, on to a circuit breaker behind the dash somewhere. 30 or 40 amp as I recall. From there power goes to the "bat" terminal on the ignition switch. You said you already checked the switch, and it's all right. Does this mean you checked the power coming out of the switch (IGN terminal) and it stay at 12 volts when you pushed the starter button? And did the same test for the power going to the switch at the BAT terminal?

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SteveB

01-29-2004 03:54:47




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 Re: Re: 350B still no start. in reply to jdemaris, 01-28-2004 18:16:33  
No I bench tested the switches with a continuity check, in different positions. I have 12V on the batt term on key switch. 1.3V on Ign term and 3.6V on Accs. term, when key is in that position. It looks like power then jumps from key switch to push button. I have 1.3V out of push button to wire harness plug. From that point I can't tell where things go, It,s a factory harness and every thing is bundeled tight. I have a small metal box behind dash " I think it's a voltage regulator" Looks like a motorolla",with about 8 or 10 wires comming out of it connecting into the harness as well. This is a 350B. Thanks for any help. steveB

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jdemaris

01-29-2004 05:50:25




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 Re: Re: Re: 350B still no start. in reply to SteveB, 01-29-2004 03:54:47  
The Motorola regulator has nothing to do with the starting system. I forgot that the reg. was sometimes mounted remotely. Getting senile, I guess. Quite often it was mounted "piggy back" on the alternator. I've taken a lot of them off and replaced with Delco, mainly because the parts are so expensive for the Motorolas. Anyway, this has nothing to do with your problem. You have to check voltage while under load. You also might detect the problem by testing the switches with an ohmeter, but not a continuity tester. In your case, since your problem is in the starting and ignition circuit, you need to "load" test the wiring at certain points. That is to say, voltage must be tested at several points while normal current is being drawn. A wire might read 12 volts at no load, but as soon as a few amps are drawn, voltage might drop to only a few volts. So . . . with the ignition switch turned on, and holding the starter button in, check the voltage at several points, e.g. and i.e. the input and output at the circuit breaker, BAT terminal at the ignition switch, IGN termial on the same switch, input and output at the starter button, etc. Somewhere, you're going to find more volage going in than coming out, and that's where the problem will be. If you have an ohmeter, you can check actual resistance in your switches. It's not a perfect test, but close enough.

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Bob

01-29-2004 05:33:38




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 Re: Re: Re: 350B still no start. in reply to SteveB, 01-29-2004 03:54:47  
Steve, Should have 12 volts coming out of switch. Losing some voltage in switch. Check again if still same replace.



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