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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Case 450 Dozer (Late 60's) won't go into gear

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Bob Bauer

02-19-2004 12:48:41




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Thank you Wilson, marlowe, monty, and Danny. It looks like all of you think the problem has something to do with the Charge Pump (whether it be a priming problem, or a problem with the Charge Pump suction hose, or a bad Charge Pump.) I would appreciate it if you might tell me why you think it is something to do with the Charge Pump. First off, I don't know what the function of the Charge Pump is. Does it pressurize the Torque Converter? Secondly, I don't know the chronological flow from engine to transmission to making the tracks move. I know how it works in a car - where the flexplate, i.e., flywheel, is bolted to the end of the engine crankshaft and the Torque Converter is bolted to the flex plate, i.e., the flywheel, and the splined input shaft from the automatic transmission goes into the female splines of the Torque Converter. Thus the engine's crankshaft is what pressurizes the Torque Converter via the spinning revolutions and the Torque Converter spins the input shaft of the transmission which then transmits the power to the output shaft of the transmission and the driveline is connected to the output shaft of the transmission on one end and to the rear-end differential on the other end. So, how does it work in the Case 450 Dozer? I need to get a mental picture of how things work. What does the Charge Pump do and why does parking downhill seem to solve some problems whereas parking uphill can create a problem? My Cousin took off the suction line and poured hydralic fluid into it. He said that the hose quickly filled up so he cranked the engine a revolution or two and it sucked the fluid out of the hose and into the Charge Pump. He did this a few times. The results? Driveline still not spinning and of course Dozer won't go into gear. My Cousin thought the suction hose looked pretty old when he peered inside it. He thought he might replace it just in case the insides have cracked and deteriorated and restricted the flow of hydraulic fluid. Thank you all again. Look forward to your replies and being further educated. Take care, Bob Bauer

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marlowe

02-19-2004 18:12:14




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 Re: Case 450 Dozer (Late 60's) won't go into gear in reply to Bob Bauer, 02-19-2004 12:48:41  
[[[[[[NOTICE BE CARFULL DOING THIS]]]]]]]]]one more way to check the T.C. is start machine and put it in gear and try to turn the drive shaft by hand if you can't then it's the T.C.and you have pressure in the trans. and not the charge pump[[[[[[[ NOTICE BE CARFULL DOING THIS ]]]]]]]]]]]



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marlowe

02-19-2004 18:06:17




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 Re: Case 450 Dozer (Late 60's) won't go into gear in reply to Bob Bauer, 02-19-2004 12:48:41  
if your drive shaft don't turn at all and you ruled out the pump then i'll have to go along with george and his idea on the T.C.



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george md

02-19-2004 15:37:35




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 Re: Case 450 Dozer (Late 60's) won't go into gear in reply to Bob Bauer, 02-19-2004 12:48:41  
Bob , I saw the earlier post and did not jump in as the fellows that answered gave you what I thought were the right answers with what you gave them to work with. The one thing you did not give them was the pressure gauge readings on the dash for the torque converter and the trans clutch pressure. if you do not have pressure , continue searching for a suction leak in the line coming from the trans to the filter, cracked filter housing,lining of the suction coming loose and shutting off the oil flow or in a rare possibility the regulator plunger or spring in the torque converter. And it could be the pump itself , but they usually don't die instantly. The other thought is that if you do have trans pressure and conv pressure, then you need to look else where . There is a fiber coupling ring between the flywheel and the torque conv and the teeth will break off and therefore not turn the converter . george

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Bob Bauer

02-19-2004 16:13:03




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 Re: Re: Case 450 Dozer (Late 60's) won't go into g in reply to george md, 02-19-2004 15:37:35  
Thanks George. Does it seem likely or probable to you that this fiber coupling ring is the culprit? As mentioned, my Cousin was using the Dozer with no problems, then he shut it off for the night (he shut it off with the Dozer pointing uphill on an incline)and came back to a couple of days later, started up his Dozer, put it in gear and nothing happened - no movement, no sounds, nothing. His blade works as well as his winch. His automatic transmission pressure gauge reads around 225psi and his other gauge says "oil pressure" and the gauge goes from 0 to 100psi and when he starts up his Dozer it pegs out at 100 and as the Dozer warms up this reading goes down to about the 40-60psi range. He knows this gauge isn't the engine oil pressure gauge, but he doesn't know for sure what this "oil pressure" gauge is measuring but believes it is the torque converter gauge. My cousin said that he followed the line and it plugs into the torque converter right next to where the torque converter temperature line plugs in (by the way, his converter temperature gauge doesn't work). He is wondering if maybe this gauge isn't calibrated correctly because as I mentioned it pegs at around 100psi when he first starts the Dozer and then comes down to 40-60psi when the Dozer warms up. Both gauges (the transmission and the converter), when you shift track speed levers or the forward and reverse levers, both gauges momentarily dip in pressure and then return. The transmission gauge dips about 25psi and the torque converter gauge drops about 10 to 20psi. Thanks for all the help. Bob Bauer in Seattle

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george md

02-19-2004 17:49:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Dozer (Late 60's) won't go in in reply to Bob Bauer, 02-19-2004 16:13:03  
Bob, The trans and converter pressure should make it go. If the drive shaft is not turning ,look at the fiber coupling . Send me an email . george



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