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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Still hoping to get Case 450B started

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David in SC

02-29-2004 04:16:50

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But, it ain't looking too good, unless I am not doing something right. This thing was parked 5+ years ago and was "tired" when it was parked. With that in mind, I already plan to rebuild the engine. I just want to get it to run long enough to make sure it was just tired and not "sick" and tired. Also want to make sure everything else works like I think it is supposed to, ie. tranny, hydraulics, etc. So,I wasted about 2 full cans of ether on her yesterday and still no fire. She almost sounded like she was going to fire a couple of times, but no luck. Just an occasional slight cough. I never locked it up either, even after giving it a 4-5 second shot of ether. I tried fogging the cylinders with fogging oil. I fixed the fuel leaks that were present on the return lines for the most part; still just an occasional small drip. The valve train appears to be moving as it is supposed to. I am running out of ideas. I did note that it does not appear to be getting fuel and I need to check that out further. I know it gets fuel back through the return line because I still have some very slight seepage out of several of the return line T's. And pressure builds because they bubble when, and for a while, after cranking. But, when I cracked and even completely opened the line to 2 injectors, I got no fuel? Even while cranking. HMMM. Maybe I have an injector pump problem. I will pull the line to the injector pump today to make sure it is getting fuel. But, shouldn't it still fire on ether even if not getting fuel? I am just about out of ideas. I feel like maybe there just is not enough compression to crank. I can spin the motor with the fan. Not easily, but it will rotate. Any other ideas before I go deeper would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. David in SC

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Thanks for the help

02-29-2004 17:53:47

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Re: Still hoping to get Case 450B started in reply to David in SC, 02-29-2004 04:16:50

No, it didn't crank yet. But, I'll keep trying. I quit for today after killing my Bobcat battery and my jump starter. I'll try again tomorrow night. I moved on to other adventures. Cutting off the gobs of steel the prev. owner welded on the rails instead of repairing the track adjusters. What a job. Got one track split; not much more than a piece of big rebar used to join it. Pulled the adjuster out, but can not get the cylinder out. I assume there may be a clip or some type of retainer. I am debating trying to rebuild this as the kit was in the battery tray when I bought it. at this point, I can not throw $275 x 2 away for what I need to use this thing for. Everything is a risk. Also have plenty to keep me busy with pins and bushings. One pin on the left tilt cylinder is no bigger than my pinky and the hole is big enough to stick an egg through. Ahh. The things I get myself into.

Thanks and I will keep you posted.

David in SC

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02-29-2004 14:32:12

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Re: Still hoping to get Case 450B started in reply to David in SC, 02-29-2004 04:16:50

if you have no fuel coming in, then you prob arent giving it enough ether. Little shots of ether are just supposed to get the diesel to start burning. If you have no diesel, then you are not going anywhere. Try dumpin diesel in the air intake, like a good cup full at a time. You should get smoke out after that, then it might fire for a few strokes until it runs out of fuel again. Doing that quite a few times, will help bleed out that pump. -Greg

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marlowe

02-29-2004 12:27:53

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Re: Still hoping to get Case 450B started in reply to David in SC, 02-29-2004 04:16:50

if it sat for 5 years the and you used two cans of ether you have the cyl. washed down and they are real fussey that you have to get [[[[ALL]]]] the air out of the pump and i mean ALL bleed the HEL# out of it and best is to plug off the return line untill you get it going after all air is out of the pump crack one injector line at the injector and turn over and don't use any more eather untill you get smoke. ALL SO ARE YOU SURE YOU PUMP IS ON ALL THE WAY??? the lever between the pump and engine DON"T TRUST the cable. all so make sure your fuel tank is on

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chris thompson

02-29-2004 14:12:25

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Re: Re: Still hoping to get Case 450B started in reply to marlowe, 02-29-2004 12:27:53

HELLO!!!! i see you have problems getting your diesel engine to fire even on eether the reason why is you have no fuel getting to the engine locate the fuel lift pump and it should have a lever that you manualy operate but before you do that open air bleed valves on top of fuel filter housing then operate the lift pump by hand and watch for fuel coming out of the bleed valve if you get none after a few minutes then pull off fuel line that supplies lift pump from fuel tank and blow back through it might have blockage then
once you have fuel to lift pump operate the hand lever on lift pump and bleed the system to the filter housing once you have fuel coming out of bleed valve on filter housing crack all injector lines at head and crank engine untill fuel comes out clean in each injector and do this to all injectors once finished if she wont fire on her own but it probably will!!!! then administer some eether and she should be up and running if not then you have engine problem ,compression injection pump timing wrong ect but as long as you dont have fuel coming out injectors when cracking the lines dont expect it to run if you do all this and still cant get fuel to injectors
there may be a problem with the injection pump!!!
anyway i thought id try help yah out !! chris thompson

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marlowe

02-29-2004 16:07:12

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Re: Re: Re: Still hoping to get Case 450B started in reply to chris thompson, 02-29-2004 14:12:25

case 450 dose not have a fuel pump

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Steve

02-29-2004 06:11:40

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Re: Still hoping to get Case 450B started in reply to David in SC, 02-29-2004 04:16:50

Does it whip over? I mean really whip good. If you have a weak battery forget it. Your battery may start a car or pickup but a dozer takes a lot more. Another thing. Ether will dry out the cylinders. Dry cylinders means low compression. One thing you can try is this. If you are sure the fuel system is bled well, take 2 12V batteries and connect them in series. If your machine has the electric shutoff solenoid on the injection pump disconnect it and use a jumper wire to power it with only 12V. Then try whiping it over with 24V. I'll bet she'll start then. As long as you don't grind away on the starter, it shouldn't hurt it. Low voltage does more damage than high. We've done this hundreds of times on those tired old tractors. You may want to disconnect the alt. as well. We don't normally but it's probably better that you do.

P&D Mechanical

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keith

02-29-2004 05:48:05

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Re: Still hoping to get Case 450B started in reply to David in SC, 02-29-2004 04:16:50

Try setting up a diesel container on the hood and directly connect a hose to the injection pump. Crack your injection lines and let gravity help bleed. Ive done this many times to get a diesel started that had been stuck on extreme angles and have started my 450 this way when I have ran out of fuel and didn't have enough on hand to top off the tank. If this works check for leaks that are drawing air.

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forgot to mention

02-29-2004 04:19:45

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Re: Still hoping to get Case 450B started in reply to David in SC, 02-29-2004 04:16:50

Forgot to mention that I have changed both filters and put in fresh diesel. I also have the air breather system off the machine. I have also drained the bottom off the oil pan. There was about 1/2 cup of water or diesel in the bottom of the pan. Thanks again. David

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jim/pa

02-29-2004 06:22:12

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Re: Re: Still hoping to get Case 450B started in reply to forgot to mention, 02-29-2004 04:19:45

sounds like ya have 2 problems. if it wont fire on ether its tired. spend the 80 bucks and get a compression gauge, i never regretted it. go thru the fuel systen completely, and get fuel to the injectors, i like to pull out an injector, and watch it spray, that way you're not guessing, you know it has fuel, pressure, and good injectors. good luck, jim

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