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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Question re: JD 450BC loss of power

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Larry Van Horn

02-29-2004 15:28:43




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This machine is new to me, and today after working with it for about 6 hours, I noticed 1) that a gauge was dropping ( can't read what it is ??NS OIL) it is on the bottom right under engine temp, and 2) a loss of power. The window on the side reads full of Hyd fluid. I brought it back up and parked it (The sides were caked solid with ice and mud, which I tried to power wash out). I checked the transmission fluid level under the seat. That is fine. Oil pressure reads 50 psi. Checked the oil level and it is a bit low (at the add level). It runs at a nice engine temp level I can lift the front of the machine off the ground with the blade. THe problem is that is seems as though it is just losing power to push. The engine isn't really lugging down, it just feels like it lost pressure somewhere. The thing that caught my attention was that the gauge that was dropping. IS it possible to get so much stuff caked un the undercarriage that it can cause significant power loss? I am new to this and have valued reading the board here, and would appreciate any thoughts.
Thanks,
Larry

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Mark

02-29-2004 23:09:02




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 Re: Question re: JD 450BC loss of power in reply to Larry Van Horn, 02-29-2004 15:28:43  
Larry,

Like Ray said, check the fuel filter. If you are new to the tractor, I would change it. It is located on the right side of the engine, I guess you could say it's mounted on the block. It is square and the whole thing will remove, clean around it will air or chem-tool to remove dirt and dust. Also check your air filter, I blow mine out and reuse them a few times. There is 2 filters inside that round cover under the dash. I can't recall if I have another fuel filter under the seat on my 450C. I know there is one under the seat on one of my 350C's or the 450C, but can't remember off hand what one. This is something I do every so often; under the seat there is a line that comes off the fuel tank and has a petcock and goes toward the back of the tractor, under the right compartment in the rear. It it a sediment drain for the tank, I use a clean glass bottle and drain fuel until I have nice clean fuel coming out. It is sort of a 2 person job. The reason I use a bottle is because I like to know what comes out of the tank. I am careful about keeping dirt and stuff out of the tank, so I dont get much out of the drain. Being in Calif. I don't have to deal with snow and ice, but I do know that mud can restrict your tracks a little. You may want to consider removing the rock guards if you find the dirt freezing in the rollers, this will help your problem. Good luck. Mark

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Larry Van Horn

02-29-2004 18:25:47




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 Re: Question re: JD 450BC loss of power in reply to Larry Van Horn, 02-29-2004 15:28:43  
First, I want to thank you all for your prompt and thoughtful replies. I am new to this whole thing, and am willing to admit my ignorance. When I perceived that the machine was not behaving as I thought I shut her down and spent the rest of the afternoon working to clear out the U/C. I have an operators manual that I have referred to, but the suggestions here (in the interest of not screwing things up) make me think I should get me Deere dealer out here. Is there anything straightforward I should check first? You are all correct that the gauge is for the trans temp. Thanks again.
Larry

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Sean

02-29-2004 18:06:40




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 Re: Question re: JD 450BC loss of power in reply to Larry Van Horn, 02-29-2004 15:28:43  
One more thing Larry (sorry). But I see you say that the dropping gage is trans temp? If so, it may be that the oil is not properly circulating past where the temp probe is located. If that's the case, again it points to a possible problem with trans oil pressure and/or circulation. I would check the trans oil filters first.



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Sean

02-29-2004 17:55:44




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 Re: Question re: JD 450BC loss of power in reply to Larry Van Horn, 02-29-2004 15:28:43  
Oh yeah Larry, you asked about the frozen mud and water. From my experience trying to run my machine in mud and freezing temps...YES, it will cause a loss of power. It can also strain your tracks and undercarriage. I found that once my tracks were tensioned just right, and then I'd run it in cold mud all day, and then let it sit overnight in freezing temps...The next day it was very difficult to get it moving again. I kept it from freezing to the ground by putting boards under the tracks. But the mud still packs up into the pins and links and sprockets and hardens into a concrete like substance...hard as rocks! Even if I broke the tracks free and it would move, the frozen mud up in the pins/bushings would tighten the tracks up an awful lot. The machine would strain and you could see the tracks were very tight and clicking and popping when you moved. This is bad!!

After that experience I decided not to run the machine in freezing temps anymore. The only way I would consider it is if the tracks were clean the night before and no frozen mud was packed in there. But whatever you do, be careful about the freezing mud...I wouldn't even bother trying to run it until things thawed out.

Stay warm...

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jdemaris

02-29-2004 17:52:25




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 Re: Question re: JD 450BC loss of power in reply to Larry Van Horn, 02-29-2004 15:28:43  
Your machine has a dry engine clutch on the flywheel and a set of hydraulic clutches inside the HL-R transmission. 450 series with the HL-R hydraulic-clutch transmisson needs the dry-clutch (engine clutch) linkage adjusted or checked every once in awhile. There's a threaded rod with a lock-nut on it. It's there so the hydraulic pressure in the HL-R drops whenever you push in the engine clutch (pedal all the way down instead of half-way). Nut gets loose, and then hydraulic pressure in the HL-R gets low, and it slips.

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Sean

02-29-2004 17:35:16




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 Re: Question re: JD 450BC loss of power in reply to Larry Van Horn, 02-29-2004 15:28:43  
Larry, I don't have a JD, but I do have an old IH powershift crawler. I'm assuming your machine is a powershift too?

If I understand you, what you're saying is that the engine is not bogging down, it seems to run fine right? It's just that the pushing power has diminished while the motor seems to run normally?

The gage you see dropping may be the trans oil pressure gage. On my machine this gage monitors the oil pressure that circulates through the converter and is also used to actuate the forward and reverse clutch packs. The pressurized oil must be sufficiently high and within limits in order for the clutch packs to lock up properly. If that dropping gage does read trans pressure (and your machine is like mine), and the machine seems to be slipping, then that may be what it is. I would not use the machine anymore until you identify what the problem is, as you may burn up the clutches and/or converter which is expensive and complicated to fix. Have you checked to see that your transmission oil is clean and up to it's proper level?

There are some fairly simple things you can do too if this is on the right track. Check your suction filter, which captures gunk and dirt and keeps it from circulating through the tranny. Also, you should have a transmission filter element too. Check and replace as necessary. Don't confuse the hydraulic system filters/tanks etc (for the lift cylinders etc) with your tranny components...if you're new to crawlers 'n stuff (like me) it's not hard to do. Get a manual if you don't already have one.

Good luck...

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Ray A in N.J.

02-29-2004 16:25:32




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 Re: Question re: JD 450BC loss of power in reply to Larry Van Horn, 02-29-2004 15:28:43  
Larry,- I also have a JD450C and the gauge your referring to on my machine is the trans. temperature gauge. If it were dropping,and working properly, it would mean the temperature was going down, so I would'nt think overheating the trans would be the problem. loss of power could be a fuel problem,-dirty,water loaded fuel filter. hope I've been a little help.



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Larry Van Horn

02-29-2004 17:09:41




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 Re: Re: Question re: JD 450BC loss of power in reply to Ray A in N.J., 02-29-2004 16:25:32  
Ray, I checked and mine too is the trans temp gauge. I just don't know why over the course of an hour it went from being in the middle to at the bottom at the same time as I lost what I perceive to be the power in the transmission.
I'll walk through each of the things you suggest. Thanks,
Larry



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