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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

for jdemaris again

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jim/pa

03-03-2004 12:41:40




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jd, i'm getting started on my 450c, have the nose off, and i checked #3 rod bearing, its good. im going to do the balancer shaft bearings, and maybe the cam bearings, and while i'm at it, i figured i'd do the timing gears. the meter shows 3400 hrs. im assuming i can do all of this without pulling the engine. just pull the pan, and timing cover. am i wrong? any pointers? this will be my first deere.
jim

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newt

03-04-2004 08:16:36




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 Re: for jdemaris again in reply to jim/pa, 03-03-2004 12:41:40  
Jim/Pa
I recently overhauled a JD450C engine that included replacing the balancer shafts and associated bearings. The balancer shaft bearing surfaces were worn undersize and the bearing inserts were worn oversize which contributed to low oil pressure. You sure lose a lot of oil pressure if there is excessive clearance. This overhaul was an out-of-frame overhaul and I would imagine it would be very difficult to replace/align the balancer bearings with the block still in the frame. Good luck with the overhaul.

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jdemaris

03-03-2004 19:26:42




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 Re: for jdemaris again in reply to jim/pa, 03-03-2004 12:41:40  
I've never installed balancing shafts and bushings with the engine in place. Standard procedure at the dealership when it came to the four cylinder diesels with shafts was to pull the engine and go all through it. The mindset being that the engine probably had over 20,000 hours on it if the shafts were that bad. I can't think of a reason why you can't do it, though. Hardest part I think will be extracting the rear bushings. I expect you'll find the shafts themselves are shot too. I've never encountered a wornout cam or cam bushings in any of these engines, nor have I ever had to replace timing gears. I recently rebuilt a Deere engine with over 34,000 hours on it and the gears still looked fine. I'm assuming you've done this already, but make sure the oil pressure regulator spring and plug is okay, they tend to get hammered.

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jim/pa

03-04-2004 09:47:55




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 Re: Re: for jdemaris again in reply to jdemaris, 03-03-2004 19:26:42  
thanks newt, and jd. i was just gonna do the cam bearings as a preventive maintainance item, i'll skip that if all seems to be in order. im sure i'll have to do the balancers tho, because they had play when i did the liners/pistons. the timing gears show no appreciable wear on the teeth, however there is some play between the gears, i assume due to worn bushings. they move around some. as far as the oil pump goes, where is the regulator located? im guessing inside the pump? thanks for everything, jim

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jdemaris

03-04-2004 10:00:49




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 Re: Re: Re: for jdemaris again in reply to jim/pa, 03-04-2004 09:47:55  
No, the regulator plug, spring, and seat are in the front engine cover as I recall. There's a large hex plug that holds the spring and plug in along with whatever shimms were first installed. A I remember, a coin will fit nicely in a bind. When I was a road mechanic (more like deep woods mechanic) seems there were several occasions I upped the oil pressure in a 350 or 450 by sticking a penny or a dime in - can't remember which.

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jim/pa

03-04-2004 13:12:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: for jdemaris again in reply to jdemaris, 03-04-2004 10:00:49  
thanks jd, im going out to check it now.
jim



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jim/pa

03-05-2004 14:09:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: for jdemaris again in reply to jim/pa, 03-04-2004 13:12:39  
ok, i found the regulator, no shims were installed. theres only one shiny spot on the regulator valve spool, so i think thats gonna be ok. pulled the pan, and front cover. the balancer shaft bushings seem pretty good, just a little wear is evident, and the shafts are tight. the problem seems to be the timing idler gears, both idlers have considerable play, i can slip a thick piece of paper inside the bushings. all is ordered, should be running tomorrow. sound like a possible solution to the low oil pressure problem jd?
jim

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jdemaris

03-06-2004 06:59:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: for jdemaris again in reply to jim/pa, 03-05-2004 14:09:36  
I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying about the gears. Worn oil pumps and housing will affect the oil pressure, but worn idler gears? They're not going to change oil pressure. As far as the oil-pressure regulator slug - it doesn't seal like a valve spool. It seals at the very end, where it's rounded - like a valve seat in a cylinder head. Check it, and the seat, carefully.



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