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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

low compression

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Doug.Ont

03-27-2004 04:14:32




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Had a person check out my 555 3cyl ford hoe for a no start situation, had been sitting for quite awhile. He suggests that he replace the pistons and rings and check the valves at the same time, he states that he can ream out the ridge and just put oversize pistons and rings without reboring the cylinders, is this correct, or should the motor come out and be rebored to a larger size and replace the bearings at this time also, any help or comments would be most helpful as I know nothing of this type of work and would not want to cut corners for the sake of a few dollars.

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Wayne

03-28-2004 00:09:50




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 Re: low compression in reply to Doug.Ont, 03-27-2004 04:14:32  
Hey Doug, this response is a little long, but as an equipment mechanic by trade I'd have to say this guy is a little suspect in his mechanical knowledge and exhibits very poor judgement in his "repair" suggestions. To top it off it sounds like he burned up your starter trying to get it started....is he gonna cover the cost of that screwup or is he gonna stick you with that bill too???? Just because an engine has been setting for a while it doesn't automatically mean the injectors or the pump or the valves are bad nor does it mean the rings are automatically gonna be stuck. I would never even consider making the kinds of suggestions to a customer he has made to you concerning repairs to their engine, if for no other reason than it simply isn't the right way to do things. If you do in fact need an engine rebuild then the only way to do it is to do it right, otherwise your just gonna be throwing good money after bad because I can guarantee your gonna be back into it again withing a short period of time if he does it like he's suggesting....and is this guy gonna foot the bill for the second time to do it right??? When you were trying to get it started were you even seeing any smoke out of the stack? If so then it should have been getting fuel. If not then it could be bad fuel left in the tank (ie your actually picking up water and not fuel or fuel too diluted to even begin to fire), or (and I don't remember exactly what fuel pump the 555 has, maybe somebody else will know for sure) possibley just the fuel rack inside the pump is stuck and not allowing it to move from the shutoff position, also some of the pumps have a check ball on the return side which if stuck/gummed up with old fuel will cause it not to function properly. When you get your new starter back in try unhooking the fuel lines from the tank and drawing directly off a fresh bucket of fuel. Make sure you bleed all the lines at the injectors. If the pump is working and your getting a good flow of fuel there you should be able to see it spurt each time the pump sends a charge of fuel up that line. If your seeing that then your getting fuel which means the pump is OK, if not then you may need some pump work. The only things a diesel needs to run are fuel and air and compression good enough to cause the cause the fuel to burn. If you get it spinning and are seeing fuel at the injectors then tighten all the nuts. At that point you should start seeing smoke out the stack. Even if you don't see the smoke, give it a snort of ether and see if it will fire on that. I know somebody out there will have to make a comment on the use of ether in an engine, but in a case like this it will allow you to see if it has enough compression to even fire. If it will fire on the ether then you ought to be able to get it running on the fuel too. If it firse on ether but your not getting fuel then that tells you you have a fuel problem and not a compression problem which would eliminate the stuck rings, valves, etc. This leaves the fuel pump as the most probable cause for the lack of fuel. If you have no success with doing this then you may very well have stuck rings, or a stuck valve, etc etc, causing low compression. Still before I'd go pulling the head and doing any major repairs I'd find a mechanic EXPERIENCED AND COMPETENT enough to be able to pull the injectors and do a compression check before I did anything else..... . Obviously this last guy left you a little uneasy or you wouldn't have posted with your questions. If the next guy doesn't seem like he knows what is going on either, keep looking for somebody you feel comfortable with and can trust. Not being a mechanic yourself you have to find somebody you can trust because it's your money their gonna be spending.... It's hard to try to explain every step I'd take in a situation like this. When I'm in the field working on a machine I just automatically do and suspect things baased on what I see and hear. In trying to explain all that I may have forgotten to mention something or may not have been real clear on how I would actually do something and if so I apologize. Hopefully though you now have some at least some ideal what to look for when this same mechanic or another one comes back to work on it for you..... . It's a shame your so far North, mechanics like your describing this one guy always create more work for me...LOL Hope this helps, and good luck. Wayne

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Doug

03-28-2004 14:27:24




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 Re: Re: low compression in reply to Wayne, 03-28-2004 00:09:50  
Thank you Wayne for your imput and your time spent on the reply, I think I forgot to thank you at the same time I posted the replies to the other persons,but better late than never. Much appreciated and will keep everyone posted as to the outcome of this interesting dilema.



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Doug

03-28-2004 04:20:01




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 Re: Re: low compression in reply to Wayne, 03-28-2004 00:09:50  
Thanks for the vote of support Wayne, how would you like to come for a Canadian work break (LOL), the info you provided me will make my task easier in telling this guy to Go-fly a kite. He certainly does not inspire confidence in the manner in which he goes about his work and reading all of the feedbacks from this forum tells me a lot about this guy and I will not let him do anymore work on this Hoe. You are right, all he has done (and not done) is to spend my hard earned cash with little success.

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Bob/Ont

03-27-2004 20:44:49




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 Re: low compression in reply to Doug.Ont, 03-27-2004 04:14:32  
AAAARRRGGGU! Get him to resole your work boots instead.
Later Bob



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george md

03-27-2004 10:51:48




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 Re: low compression in reply to Doug.Ont, 03-27-2004 04:14:32  
Doug,

You had better run away fast from a fellow that
says he can put oversize pistons in without boring That should be a 201 engine and that series (the
3,4,and 6 cyl) are the best part of ford tractors.
Their down fall is that they used ,in some of the
engines ,pistons with a head land top ring which
is an L shaped ring. When the ring breaks , it
usually gouges the cyl wall , the last one I had
in cut .045 into one side of the cyl. The flanged
repair sleeve is about .050 thick , just cleared .
Replacement pistons from clevite are standard top ring . I bored that engine for repair sleeves
in all cylinders as the other two had scratches and water damage.

george

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Doug

03-27-2004 16:47:12




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 Re: Re: low compression in reply to george md, 03-27-2004 10:51:48  
Thank you George, will give your suggestion some thought.



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RAB

03-27-2004 07:48:34




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 Re: low compression in reply to Doug.Ont, 03-27-2004 04:14:32  
Doug,
A little more information is needed to make any comment really, other than what exactly were these recommendations based on. Suggestions of what to do are one thing. What actually needs to be done may be entirely different. Is the head off now? How does he know what the wear is? Did it burn oil last time it ran? How has it been stored? Why was it sitting that time? How little compression did it have? Test done dry and wet? Are valves stuck?
Sorry, just not enough to go on, to make anything other than suggestions.
Regards,RAB

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Doug

03-27-2004 16:39:15




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 Re: Re: low compression in reply to RAB, 03-27-2004 07:48:34  
Thank you Rab for your reply, this hoe was bought by a person to build a house and do landscaping around his new residence, which he did, after which he parked it outside with nothing on the exhaust stack, moisture got down to the cyl's but did not seize the motor or valves, but did mess up the injector tips, no compression was taken as he could not remove the injectors,but did say that the injectors and possibly the pump might be bad. On getting this unit I drained all fluids and installed a new Battery and then called this guy to try and fire up the unit. the head is still in place and the injectors are still in the head, a new starter is now required to continue further tests, as I have no idea what he is doing I thought that some imput from your forum might help, and I am glad that I did. Thank you so much and could you please respond again to this additional info.

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RAB

03-28-2004 01:02:21




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 Re: Re: Re: low compression in reply to Doug, 03-27-2004 16:39:15  
Doug,
How do yu know it messed up the injector tips? Your 'mechanic' again? Until you see them you will not know for sure what condition they are in - unless you get it started and it gives clues.
I had no clue that it was a diesel or gas from your post, but now I do it sure sounds like it probably just needed bleeding through with new fuel and filters and probably not much more!! THEN. NOW - it sounds like it neds new filters, bleeding and a starter motor!
One cylinder, at least, would still be good as both valves would be closed, when it stood. If the exhaust manifold has a small hole at the lowest point, most water would have run straight out.
First I would find a decent mechanic, one that is not quite so proficient at fault-finding without doing anything, other than churning it over on the starter and increasing you bill without good reason. Btw, did he bleed it or at least try to bleed it? If he didn't, then take no notice of anything he said!
Did your mechanic tell you it needed a new starter motor? Might be a corroded connection or something minor to repair the present one. If compression was so low it should not have burned up the starter motor very easily unless already faulty, or abused.

If the fuel lines were not bled, do you know how to do it? I would recommend, if you don't have one already, that you get an operator manual before you go any further - it will help on trouble shooting, servicing and a host of other issues, especially safety related ones.
Regards, RAB

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Doug

03-28-2004 04:08:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: low compression in reply to RAB, 03-28-2004 01:02:21  
Thanks Rab, yes I did purchase both the service manual and the operators manual, he did attempt to (bleed system) after installing a new fuel filter and flushing the tank, new fuel was put in before the filter was installed, he took the lines off at the injectors and cranked it over and there was a small flow of fuel from all of the injector lines. I do think you are right and maybe I should get someone else to look at this for me.

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RAB

03-29-2004 07:23:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: low compression in reply to Doug, 03-28-2004 04:08:56  
Doug, Please let us all know what eventually comes out of this thing. I'm sure we would all love to hear the outcome, even if only to modify our comments about your mechanic. I am not sure - he could be genuine, (may know the previous history of the machine?), inept, or downright dishonest (by trying to fleece you) - but I would like my thoughts confirmed or otherwise.
Regards, RAB



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Karen

03-27-2004 05:27:18




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 Re: low compression in reply to Doug.Ont, 03-27-2004 04:14:32  
I know where you can get parts at a reasonable cost. I'll email you the link if you'd like.



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Doug

03-27-2004 16:50:43




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 Re: Re: low compression in reply to Karen, 03-27-2004 05:27:18  
Thank you Karen, that would be of great help.My address is dguay1@kos,net



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Doug

03-27-2004 16:26:14




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 Re: Re: low compression in reply to Karen, 03-27-2004 05:27:18  
Thank you Karen, and yes I would be interested in that info. Here is my email address dguay1@kos,net. Again many thanks. I will reply to the other's as well.



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