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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

jd 350 quit

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MrBill

04-04-2004 20:51:36




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I have a 350b that has been pretty reliable. I work with it on weekends and when I push the button, it hardly rolls over once and it has already started.

After working most the day today, it coughed and sputtered, so I reached down and turned it off real fast because it did not want it to run out of fuel. I went to the truck to get the can and added 5 gallons of fuel. And was surprised because that almost filled it up. Then when I tried to start it, NOTHING. The button did nothing. I put a battery booster on it thinking the battery may be low and still nothing. I ran out of day light and did not have too many tools with me.
Any suggestions on where I might start???? It sputtered and quit. Why would it do that after running fine all day?

MrBill

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jdemaris

04-05-2004 20:09:39




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 Re: jd 350 quit in reply to MrBill, 04-04-2004 20:51:36  
I glanced through your responses but it's all starting to make my head spin. I think you need to use the process of elimination if you want to diagnose and fix your problem. 350 crawler has a very simple wiring system. First of all, since you say you've got a straight 350, does it actually have an electric fuel shut-off? Some early 350s don't shut off with the key, you shut them down with the throttle lever. Early injection pumps have a mechanical fuel shut off, while later injection pumps have an electric fuel shut-off solenoid. This is important, since if your's does NOT have a electric shutoff, diagnosis will differ. In regard to the circuit breaker behind the dashboard - you don't have to go to Deere. You can buy them in most any auto parts stores. Deere uses 20 and 30 amp breakers. In 350 crawlers, the most common problem that makes a machine suddenly go dead - at least electrically - is the main wiring harness connector under the hood. The main engine harness plugs into the dashboard just at the seam where the hood joins the dashboard cowl. Vibration makes them come loose. If that's the case, you can clean them and plug them back in, or just bypass them and splice in permanent connections. Someday, if you need new batteries, you find using two 12 volt batteries in parallel to be more reliable than using two 6 volt batteries in series.

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MrBill

04-06-2004 09:54:27




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 Re: Re: jd 350 quit in reply to jdemaris, 04-05-2004 20:09:39  
jdemaris,
I was hoping you would pop your head in over here.

Mine does have the electrical shutoff. Turn the key and push the button and it starts, turn the key and it quits.

Deere has the Circuit breaker for $12 bucks and is holding one for me. What would an automotive one cost? or should I just stick with this one? It is 2 and 1/2 hrs round trip so I cannot be running back and forth looking for parts. I can only work on it on weekends. Hopefully, I will be able to break away this weekend to get it running again.

I'll check the harness plug first thing when I get out there. Sounds like a problem looking for a time to happen.

On the batteries, I will keep that in mind when it comes time for them to be replaced again. Trying to keep it from costing too much, I just swapped out the one battery that was bad. How many cramping amps should I try and have?

Thanks and I appreciate all your input,
Bill

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jdemaris

04-06-2004 19:25:31




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 Re: Re: Re: jd 350 quit in reply to MrBill, 04-06-2004 09:54:27  
$12 sound reasonable. I don't remember what they cost down at NAPA, but that's where I usually pick them up. They rarely go bad, but I've seen a few simply fall apart. You basically need to follow the power and find out where it stops. I assume your machine is old enough that you don't have a main battery disconnect? Later machines, I think 350Bs and on all have them. If not, the power flow is thus: Main postive battery cable to the large post on the starter solenoid. At that post, a smaller cable (around 10 gauge) runs into the engine wire harness and up to the the big connector under the hood that I mentioned earlier. Then on to the BAT post on the ignition switch (note: some machines have a 30 amp breaker within this circuit and some don't). Check for power at the BAT post on the ignition switch. From here, it depends if your machine has a "crank" position on the key switch, or a separate push-button for the starter. If it's a push button, the IGN post on the ignition switch feeds power #1 back though the big harness under the hood and down to the little connector on the fuel injecton pump (pump has an electro-mechanical fuel shutoff) and #2 power runs to the starter push button and then back through the big harness connector under the hood and on to the "S" terminal on the Delco starter solenoid - but note that somewhere in this circuit power designated for the solenoid first goes through the neutral safety switch on the gear-transmssion if it's still hooked up). As far as batteries goe, it all depends on what kind of weather you expect it to start in. When parking them in the woods, and hoping to start them in -30 degrees F weather, two 700 CCA batteries, double-ought cable, 10W motor oil, fuel mixed with 50% kerosene, and a can of ether will usually work. But, if you are in a warm or moderate climate, it will work with one decent sized car battery around 550 CC. I mentioned the 12 volt setup being better than the 6 volt for a couple of reasons. The 12 volts is less demanding on the battery connections. Also, 12 volt batteries are more common, ergo they are cheaper. If all the cables are proper, clean, and tight both systems work the same. In fact, in my experience, 6 volt batteries last longer - I have no idea why.

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SteveB

04-05-2004 12:39:37




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 Re: jd 350 quit in reply to MrBill, 04-04-2004 20:51:36  
I forgot to mention you can run a piece of wire from + batt post to injector and see if it will run to get you home. When you turn key you should hear injector open. Run test wire to injector.
Jump starter solonoid w screwdriver with key in run position. Thats a start



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SteveB

04-05-2004 12:34:46




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 Re: jd 350 quit in reply to MrBill, 04-04-2004 20:51:36  
The thin wire comes off the injector (exhaust side of motor) Than goes to a wire harness connector behind dash. The ignition solonoid I replace on mine was behind dash screwed to the back of instrument cluster. A small rectangular silver componant about an inch long with with two wires gong to it. I changed mine and she stars right up. Also check that the fuel cock is open and not crudded up. Poke a small peice of wire and make sure fuel passes well. To check just pull fuel line off cock than open, If fuel flows well than that is OK. If fuel just trickles you need to clean that well with wire and compressed air.

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MrBill

04-05-2004 12:42:08




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 Re: Re: jd 350 quit in reply to SteveB, 04-05-2004 12:34:46  
Thanks Steve. How expensive is it? Since I drive by a JD dealer as I leave the house, I could pick one up and continue to the property. I would not want to be 50 miles away and wish I had one with me if they are pretty cheap.
Thanks,
MrBill



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MrBill

04-05-2004 12:55:50




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 Re: Re: Re: jd 350 quit in reply to MrBill, 04-05-2004 12:42:08  
Is it the circuit breaker? From the JD site parts catalog it's about $12 bucks.
Part Number: AR28403

MrBill



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steveb

04-05-2004 20:29:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: jd 350 quit in reply to MrBill, 04-05-2004 12:55:50  
yes that is it



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Mark

04-05-2004 08:37:50




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 Re: jd 350 quit in reply to MrBill, 04-04-2004 20:51:36  
Mr. Bill,

You may have 2 different problems. I have shut off mine before to find out that it would not start due to battery problems. The terminals were dirty or was not charging. I put a new voltage regulator on and had to make change on some wires on the alternator, but don't remember what. (perhaps Jdemaris could shed some light here) It sounds like you have a fuel problem of some sort. I think I may have told you this before, but there should be a petcock (fuel shutoff) under the seat, just off the fuel tank. Make sure that is open. Be careful, there should be 2 petcocks, 1 for the fuel line that heads toward the front of the tractor and the other is for the setiment drain. Follow the fuel line up under the floor boards to the right side of the engine. I would change the fuel filter if you have not done it since you got the 350 anyway. Check to see if you have fuel to the filter. But, you need to have juice to get the thing to turn over. So, I would deal with that first. Check with a good or a different battery that you know is good, clean terminals, check that battery switch is on. Do you have any power right now? Lights or horn work? (not sure if the B's had a horn or not) Don't let that fool you though, even though your lights work does not mean it will turn over. -Mark

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MrBill

04-05-2004 09:09:42




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 Re: Re: jd 350 quit in reply to Mark, 04-05-2004 08:37:50  
One of my 2 6volt bateries was bad and in February I replaced that. Now with the 2 batteries I have a strong 12 volt system. Since I was doing all that battery work then, my connections are all clean, tight and good. The batteries are up and fully charged and the starter will not turn over. There are not any lights or horn on the machine so I cannot checkout any other electrial accessories to see if they work. The only electrical components on it are the starter and gauges.

The petcock under the seat cannot close on its own, why would running it all day, or even the last couple months, suddenly be a problem? Why would a fuel problem prevent the machine from turning over?

I ruled out fuel because the way it sputtered once and then everything is now dead. The fuel tank was over half full. Unless there is some sensor that says if there is no fuel at the fuel pump that it will not turn over, but I don't think the 350b from '73 is that intellegent.

I am suspecting something in the electrical system failed and as a result shut it off. But not sure which or where to check first and a common component that is likely to fail.
I read a while back from Jdemaris about a problem someone was having and it was either a relay of module, not sure exactly.

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Mark

04-05-2004 11:19:45




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 Re: Re: Re: jd 350 quit in reply to MrBill, 04-05-2004 09:09:42  
Mr.Bill,

I mentioned the petcock to make sure that it was open all the way. Although it has never happen to me but perhaps it vibrate closed enough to make it sputter or starve for fuel.

I gave a sugestion a while back to a guy on here that there is a wire that goes to the injector system, ground I think, left side of tractor, connects near the throutle cable at the fuel pump. I was on my 350C in light brush and grass and suspect a stick pulled the wire apart. It quit pretty quick and did not turn over either. It took me many hours to figure that out. There was a guy a while back was having problem too, I think it ended up being a bad ignition. If ya got a volt meter, check your batteries, then before and after the battery switch, follow the cable, also check your ground, take the bolt off and sand it clean, back to the possitive side, check to see if you have power at the starter. I have not had any other problems so the only advice I can give is to trace all the electrical and try to narrow it down. I hope I was of at least a little help. -Mark

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MrBill

04-05-2004 11:56:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: jd 350 quit in reply to Mark, 04-05-2004 11:19:45  
That wire you mentioned to the injector system. Where is it located? Start, finish? That sounds more like the way mine quit and acting. Is is it under the floorboards, etc?
Thanks,
MrBill



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Mark

04-05-2004 13:01:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: jd 350 quit in reply to MrBill, 04-05-2004 11:56:14  
Mr. Bill,

The wire connects to the pump and goes to the dash, I think, but can't remember for sure. I'll be sevicing mine tomorrow so I will look if you have not figured it out. Like Steve said, try a jumper wire to the pump to ground post, seemed to work for him. -Mark



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MrBill

04-05-2004 14:20:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: jd 350 quit in reply to Mark, 04-05-2004 13:01:37  
Mark,
Thanks. I will not have a chance to work on it again until this next weekend (if the other half does not have plans for me). Since it is about an hour drive (60 miles) out there, and the price of gas, I cannot run out there too often. I have a day job that keeps me off of it too.
I appreciate any help and direction you can provide.
MrBill



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