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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Hard start

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Chip Allard

05-01-2004 08:11:33




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I have a JD450 crawler that is a BEAR to start. Once it catches and the RPM start to climb, it runs like a trooper and works hard for ya. To me it looks like it takes a long time of cranking to get enough fuel to the injector pump.
The book calls for around 4-5 psi of fuel pressure from the cam driven pump. I've been told by several good folks to put in a 12v electric pump that operates (self-regulates) from 5.5 to 9psi. Unfortunately, none of these guys are heavy iron owners. My question is, can I go past 5 psi imput pressure to the injector pump knowing the excess fuel gets returned to the tank or will I hurt something. P.S. all filters and lines are new or cleaned. No junk in the injector pump either..

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gm

05-02-2004 21:07:27




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 Re: Hard start in reply to Chip Allard, 05-01-2004 08:11:33  
Maybe the plugs are shot. That will lead to very hard starting. Of course, those electric fuel pumps are only like $20, so easy to try. prob a lot cheaper than replacing the actual pump. -Greg



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Chip

05-04-2004 14:13:04




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 Re: Re: Hard start in reply to gm, 05-02-2004 21:07:27  
No plugs....diesel.. But thanks for the reply....Chip



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jdemaris

05-01-2004 17:27:48




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 Re: Hard start in reply to Chip Allard, 05-01-2004 08:11:33  
It doesn't need ANY fuel pressure to run, just flow. If it had its fuel tank on top of the engine, like in the older 1010 or 2010, there would ge no fuel pump. If anything, maybe you need a check valve in the fuel line to keep it from bleeding back . . . but the fuel transfer pump on side of the engine already has check valves if it's working properly. As far as pressure in the fuel line going to the pump, I've seen all kinds of electric fuel pumps hooked up to them. The little pulse electric pumps can be bought in low-pressure models and high-pressure, the low being around 2-4 psi, and the high around 6-7 psi. The injection pump already has it's own little low pressure vane-powered fuel pump inside of it, but it's not capable of drawing fuel - only pushing it, so all you'll be doing is running one fuel pump into another, and then into yet another. If you suspect a lack-of-fuel at startup problem, find out if the fuel is bleeding back overnight. When you go to start the crawler after it's been sitting, first loosen the nut on fuel line where it hooks to the pump, and then crank the engine. You should see fuel instantly. If not, there's fuel problem. Also, make sure, when you are checking the operation of the fuel pump, do it with the engine cranking and NOT with the hand primer. Those pumps tend to wear out on the engine driven part but still work well with the hand primer - so they can fool you. By the way, with a 450 crawler, if you just fill the fuel tank to the top, and then park it on a hill facing down, the fuel will gravity feed. So, if you do so, and it starts better - you've isolated a fuel problem.

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Chip

05-04-2004 14:19:30




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 Re: Re: Hard start in reply to jdemaris, 05-01-2004 17:27:48  
Good comments...
I failed to mention one other item..If I try and start it on idle, it will not start...BUT! if I move the throttle anywhere past 1/4 throttle, she fires off, revs up and then runs out of fuel and dies. THEN, she a real BIT.. to start!!!!

That's why I suspected the mechanical fuel pump was not delivering enough fuel to the injector pump.. But, you say it doesn't even need the pump and should work on gravity feed...SO, there goes my theory!!!!!

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jdemaris

05-04-2004 19:36:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Hard start in reply to Chip, 05-04-2004 14:19:30  
I think you misunderstood me. The fuel level in the tank is not always higher than the engine, so it won't always gravity feed. That's why there is a fuel pump, and that's why I told you to make sure the tank is full and the crawler is parked on a hill facing down. One more thing. Assuming you have a RoosaMaster DB or JDB injecton pump, and not a CB, disconnect the return fuel line from the top of the pump, and then take out the fitting (the line was connected to) out of the pump. See if it starts and runs good that way (it will spit and leak fuel, so don't do it long). If it starts and runs good that way, you've got a shattered governor weight retaining ring inside the pump. Also, does your 450 shut off with the key, or with the throttle lever? If it shuts off with the throttle lever, there's probably a clip that came loose in the injection pump.

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Jonathan in MA

05-01-2004 11:33:19




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 Re: Hard start in reply to Chip Allard, 05-01-2004 08:11:33  
Does it smoke out of the exhaust while your cranking it over??



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Chip

05-04-2004 14:25:08




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 Re: Re: Hard start in reply to Jonathan in MA, 05-01-2004 11:33:19  
Yes and No...Sometimes it has some white (ish) smoke during crank. Other times it's gray...

When she is warmed up and running, you'd sware it was turbo charged...No smoke, just the heat signature from the pipe. Under a load she'll darken up a bit on the exhaust...



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