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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

JD450 alternator conversion to internally regulate

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Chip

05-04-2004 14:43:23




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Hi folks,

I've recently had to convert my OEM Motorola alternator system from the externally regulated 1974 model to a Delco internally regulated 80amp. The guys at NAPA and a few alternator chat rooms online said to completely remove the old voltage regulator..That makes sense. The internally regulated has two plug terminals on top. #1 and #2..Again, makes sense. I was told to take the voltage sense terminal (#2) and run it all the way back to the batteries so that the alternator "Sees" the actual delivery voltage at the battery which then compansates for voltage drop over the length of the main positive battery cable to the starter. Once more, that makes sense.. The question that needs to be answered is what do you do with #1 (Field) terminal. No one seems to know on a JD450 because the old alternator field terminal went to the external regulator..There is none now!

Does anyone know where I should run the field terminal to on this one????

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jdemaris

05-04-2004 19:24:04




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 Re: JD450 alternator conversion to internally regu in reply to Chip, 05-04-2004 14:43:23  
I think Broken Wrench misunderstood - unless I am misunderstanding you. You got rid of your piggyback Motorola and put on a Delco 10 or 12SI with the internal regulator and two prong plug on top - correct? If so, #1 gets switched 12 volt positve. It is the exciter connection to get the fields going. On many diesels you can just hook it to the IGN terminal of the ignition switch. With a gas engine - or a diesel with an electric shut-off, it gets a little more convuluted because once the alternator gets charging, the key won't turn the engine off. But, you have a diesel - right? If your diesel has a mechanical shut-off on the throttle cable (very first 450s) you're fine. If you have an electric shut off with a wire going to your injection pump, then you'll either have to wire #1 to the ACC position of your ignition switch, or hook #1 to the IGN terminal of the ignition switch, but put in a diode so power can go to #1, but cannot come from it and backfeed. #2 gets 12 volt positive full time, and can be run through an idiot "charge indicator" light if desired. In reality, on a tractor, #2 can be jumped directly to the the big charge post on the alternator if you don't need a idiot light. What you said about running it back to the battery is theoretically true, but mainly only applies to machines with long runs of wiring, i.e. cars and trucks. In those cases, there are slight variations in system voltage from one end to the other. On your 450, it won't make a difference. Also, if ever desired - but I cannot imagine why - there are self-exciting internal regulators available for your alternator. I don't like them, but they DO work. It elimates any wiring other than the battery-charge wire to the large post.

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Chip

05-05-2004 06:32:32




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 Re: Re: JD450 alternator conversion to internally in reply to jdemaris, 05-04-2004 19:24:04  
When I bought this, it was sold as a "single wire".. The boy knew not...it's actually an internally regulated Delco 12SI.

NAPA suggested using the terminals #1 and #2 because in a single wire application it normally takes a higher RPM to keep the alternator charging. (i.e. Street Rods/stock cars) and then once it's shut down, it will loose it residual magnatism rapidly if not used often. They just did not know what to do with the "field" because it was going on a dozer.

I like your idea of going to the ACC off the key with a diode...

What size diode would you use and where in the h... would I get one?????

Your thoughts Sir...Chip

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jdemaris

05-05-2004 07:16:55




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 Re: Re: Re: JD450 alternator conversion to interna in reply to Chip, 05-05-2004 06:32:32  
If you have an ignition switch with an ACC pole, you don't need a diode. You only need the diode if there is no ACC pole and you have to use the IGN pole. The problem is, that once the alternator is charging, there will be 12 volts positive coming out of the #1 terminal - and if it's hooked to the ignition circuit, power will still be present even after shutting the key off. Then, the engine will not shut off. If you use the ACC terminal, this won't happen because . . . when the key on (run - ign posisiton) both the IGN and the ACC terminals are activated and connected with one another - but when the key is OFF the ACC pole will be totally isolated from the IGN terminal. I only mentioned the diode in the case that you don't have an ACC terminal available. In that case, you can either buy a new ignition switch that DOES have it, or go to radio shack and buy some diodes that can carry ample current without burning out. The engergizer circuit to #1 rarely exceeds two amps, so any diode rated beyond that is fine. I think last time I went to Radio Shack, the largest diodes they had on the shelf were 5 amps - so I used two of them in parallel - thus having a 10 amp capacity.

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Chip

05-05-2004 13:49:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD450 alternator conversion to int in reply to jdemaris, 05-05-2004 07:16:55  
Thank You Sir,

Yes, I do have an ACC position and I should have read your responce twice and I would have seen that you said to us only if I didn't have an ACC...

I'll give it a try. I have to go to Virginia for a few days. (Civil War Reenactor)but, next week I'll hook the "field" to the acc position on the switch.

P.S. Did you happen to see my last response on the "starts hard problem"??? I'll give it to you quickly.. If I leave the throttle on idle, it won't start.. If I move the throttle anywhere past 1/4 open, it blasts off, revs up and then runs out of fuel and dies/ The optimum area is just off the idle position but always a guess and needs to crank for a while. That's why I thought it was a fuel delivery problem.. Thanks Chip

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Brokenwrench

05-04-2004 16:32:18




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 Re: JD450 alternator conversion to internally regu in reply to Chip, 05-04-2004 14:43:23  
If you have an alternator with a F or field terminal,you do not have an internally regulated alternator.You have an old style externally regulated alternator. You need a single wire delco, wire it from the alt. to the amp guage and then to the starter pos.terminal,no need to run wires to the battery.



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