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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

How to start a D73T

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Eric

05-07-2004 08:34:26




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Let me preface this by saying that I know very little about D7s. Looking at a D73T with Hyd blade. We can get the pony fired up with no problem but when we try to engage the main motor it just grinds. There appears a clutch type mec. behind an inspection port (on pony motor) which won't engage. How can this be freed up or adjusted? I know this is pretty vague, but any help would be appreciated. Thanks

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Billy NY

05-09-2004 14:58:36




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 Re: How to start a D73T in reply to Eric, 05-07-2004 08:34:26  
I'll add to Doug's post. The lower lever is the the clutch lever, the upper is the pinion lever.

First safety, make sure the master clutch for the diesel is disengaged (forward) and that the 5 spd transmission is out of gear in neutral, and the forward & reverse lever is in neutral. Make sure any accessories driven by the main like a cable control unit on the back are in neutral, you don't want that main to fire & someting is in gear. I believe that when running and stationary for any length of time, the master clutch should be left engaged, but the trans & fwd/rev. levers in neutral, forget why it's bad to leave it disengaged, I think you'll find this agrees with the operation manual, speaking of which, get one if you buy the D-7 ( can be found on e-bay, midland press reproduces them plus others etc.)

Compression lever, is the one that has 3 vertical positions, start, half & run, you want it to be in the start position ( compression released ) I'll continue this in the next paragraph.

2 speed auxillary transmission (low & high) yours should have this trans, although some of the older ones did not. If its warm out you can start off in high so make sure the lever is in gear, push the pony clutch lever in to engage the trans. when the pony is running, you can put it in gear prior to starting the pony just like the pinion as described below. I'll give more info on the use of the trans further down.

To operate the pony clutch, pushing in towards the engine disengages and pulling out towards you engages it. You'll want to push the clutch in & engage the upper lever,(pinion) towards the operators seat to engage the pinion, sometimes I engage the pinion prior to starting the pony, (seems easier)then just use the clutch to operate it, it should go all the way back to engage, sometimes you think it's in and its not, once you know the feel of it, its easy to recognize, the lever can be stiff to move, especially at the end of its travel when it engages. Then once you pull the pony clutch out and engage it, it will stay out. The pinion lever should not kick out until the diesel fires, the centrifugal force of the diesel starting/running will disenage it, if it kicks out sooner, you have to do the adjustment,(get the operators, servicemans reference, and parts books) but you can hold it in manually until it fires to get it running. They are supposed to stay without having to hold it.

Once you have the pony running, pinion engaged, compression lever on start, trans in "high", if warm out, you pull that lower pony clutch lever out towards you and diesel's fan should start to move, meaning you are turning over the engine.
I spin the main with no compression until I see oil pressure rise on the gauge, then I turn the compression on to "run" position. This is when you'll notice the pony start to bog down under the load of spinning the main, if its running good, it won't stall out. Let it spin with compression on to warm the cylinders up. (in the cold you have to spin it in low, no compression, then compression on, and switch to high gear after its warms up and spins easier, takes much longer the colder it is, they are famous for starting in zero & subzero weather). Once you have spun the main on high with the compression on, the antifreeze is warmed by circulating through the pony, oil is circulating and cylinders are heating up, the diesel is now conditioned to fire once you turn the fuel on ( short lever on pedestal in front of the operators seat ) If the diesel is in good shape it should fire immediately. You don't want to depend on ether, its ok to use very sparingly, but in my opinion, I try to avoid using it and on my D-7 the D-8800 motor is in excellent shape, it fires as soon as you turn the fuel on, right down to 10 degrees F once its been properly warmed up. Direct electric start on these type engines will never give you the benefit that a starting engine will, warmed up, oil circulating before firing up.

VERY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER ABOUT THESE STARTING ENGINES:

1.) Remember that the pony needs the diesel to turn over to operate the water pump and circulate coolant through the pony, if you run it and cannot get the main to spin, it's going to over heat quickly, and cause serious damage.

2.) Clean oil: These are old technology engines, that run at high r.p.m.'s you must keep fresh, clean oil in them period. The carburetors on these are notorious for leaking gas down into the crankcase and thinning the oil, (more so on other models) if you run it with gas thinned oil, it won't take long to cause serious damage. Take notice of your oil level, if it rises & you smell gas in it, do not run it until you change the oil. Because the drain plugs are a pain to reach from the side & underneath, I clean the area on the track, and around the crankcase inspection cover so no dirt gets in, then I remove the inspection cover to get the oil out of the sump area easily. I use a drill pump from Napa to suck the oil out ( never use one of these for fuel ! ) I then carefully blot up & clean the sump area, replace the cover, add 2 quarts ( should be non-detergent 30 wt. oil if I'm not mistaken, no filter on these, so the contaminants are supposed to settle to the bottom of the sump instead of being suspended like in modern oils )

3.) After the main fires, you can let the pony run out of fuel, shut off the valve and let it run out, this takes too long for me, so I shut the valve off, and use a petcock & hose that I replaced the bowl drain plug with to drain gas out of the bowl, know its dry and not worry about any gas leaking down. The fuel tanks for the pony are notorious for rusting up inside, clogging sediment bowls, also a small screen right where the fuel line connects to the Zenith carburetor, so if it's hard to start and or not giving full power, check the fuel sys. for restrictions.

4.) Depending on when the diesel disengages the pony, there is a potential to overspeed the pony when the diesel fires, so you can hold the throttle linkage if the governor is not working properly or just want to play it safe, you can cause serious damage to the pony if you overspeed it, just as the main beigns to fire you can hold it back just a bit, to keep it from doing this, mine runs away when the diesel fires so I hold the linkage to be safe.

5.) Ignition system: there are numerous magneto shops in the U.S. that can re-hab your magneto if you don't have good spark, or no spark. Always use solid conductor spark plug wires, different from modern plug wires, these don't push high voltage like modern ignition systems, neccesitating a solid conductor wire. If you have to re-hab the mag, you'll have make sure the timing is correct when you replace it on the pony, I figured mine out after some struggling, it's a little hard to understand from the book, once you do it right, not that bad at all. These little motors like lots of fuel & hot spark to run right.

Just figured this would be some helpful information especially if not well versed on the old CAT tractors with starting engines. Good luck if you get it !

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Eric

05-11-2004 05:26:13




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 Re: Re: How to start a D73T in reply to Billy NY, 05-09-2004 14:58:36  
First of all, thank you for the responses. After checking it out again, it appears that the pony clutch is stuck in the disengage position. (lever forward) The pony clutch spins freely until you pull on the handle to engage it then it engages slightly. The problem is that you can only pull the handle about half an inch and the handle will not lock in position.(clutch to tight?)

My search has narrowed to this machine which has a hydraulic blade and good undercarriage or a D717a which is cable blade and good undercarriage.
Which would be the better machine?

Any suggestions or comments? Thanks Again

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Billy NY

05-12-2004 08:09:33




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 Re: Re: Re: How to start a D73T in reply to Eric, 05-11-2004 05:26:13  
I'd check the undercarriage's (U/C) on both by measuring, you can ask on the A.C.M.O.C. site, how to measure and the spec.'s ( link posted at bottom) and compare the dimensions you get against new as listed in the manuals, best way to confirm the actual condition, eyeballing only alerts you to suspected problems like the pin bosses hitting the roller flanges. You want real numbers to base the percentage worn off the U/C, your eyes can't do that. You may want to check inside the bottom of the final drive cases for metal, think a magnet on a telescoping rod like the auto parts store sells would work fine. Maybe even pry with a bar against the sprocket to make sure its on the axle tight, a loose one may mean the splines are chewed up if run like that, requiring a teardown, if the final drives are ok, U/C ok, steering clutches/brakes ok, no major oil leaks, coolant leaks, both motors in good shape both tractors are a well built CAT product. If one has any problems with the above, you could be in for a sizeable repair job and some $$, you may not want to get involved in, just good to be aware about things like these.

The 7M, 3T, 4T & 6T were identical tractors, differences were minimal, approx. 50,000 built combined, so parts machines are probably still plentiful. 28,000 something 3T's were built, at 26,800 something they came standard with oil clutches, this continued into the next series, the 17-A. Much more durable than a dry type clutch, so if either machine is an oil clutch, that is something to consider. Get the serial number off the tags located in 2 places, left side of diesel engine block behind the pony, or on the back of the tractor, left side below the fuel tank, so you can I.D. each one, if you post your inquiry on the A.C.M.O.C. site, lot of people have the books that can tell you about these particular tractors, especially if you give them a serial number.

The 17-A came with a newer design and different 4 cyl. eventually with a turbo, so it has more H.P. than a 3T D-8800 4 cyl., I also think the pitch went to 8 1/2" on sprocket & chain, (the 3T was 8")might be that the 17-A could be easier to get U/C components for ( don't quote me on it ). But even with a 3T, I'm sure there are solutions to fit parts, if the 17-A has bolt on sprocket segments, that is an advantage.

My vote would be for the 17-A, but both are still well built tractors, just the 17-A is newer, might have more benefits, but in the end the more mechanically sound tractor would be the best choice.

A.C.M.O.C. ( link below )

Good site & club for old CAT tractors, highly knowleable, extremely helpful people, an excellent benefit for anyone with an old CAT. Go to the bulletin board.

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Billy NY

05-14-2004 10:17:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: How to start a D73T in reply to Billy NY, 05-12-2004 08:09:33  
CORRECTION: Oil clutch was standard on the 3T series effective with S/N 3T 23647 as stated in the servicemans reference book.



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Doug in IL.

05-08-2004 05:52:10




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 Re: How to start a D73T in reply to Eric, 05-07-2004 08:34:26  
There should be 2 levers as I remember. One that engages the pinion to the flywheel of the diesel engine. The other is the pony clutch lever. It sounds like your pony clutch is engaged and you are trying to engage the pinion. It will grind doing this. If the pony clutch is engaged and won't disengage, it is likely the pony clutch is locked over center. There is a plate with 4 bolts holding it on to the "back" of the pony motor. Take it off and look inside. You will see the clutch toggles. Take a large screw driver and pop the toggles loose. Then the clutch will have to be adjusted. It is probably a bit too tight. Or the linkages are worn. The pinion has to be engaged before you engage the pony clutch. The pinion will disengage when the diesel starts. I hope this makes sense!

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