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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

'68 JD350 Dozer stalling

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barryinmn

05-15-2004 20:58:23




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Symptom started last Fall, exhaust sound went raspy from mellow - the best sounding machine in the barn, lost power slowed & stalled. I replaced the fuel filters last Fall & problem continued so I put the machine in the back of the barn till now.

Dozer will start cold, run several minutes then stall. When warm run time is less. Restarts quickly & stalls. Machine has an electric fuel pump substituting the original engine driven one.

I had replaced the 2 fuel filters earlier. Today I blew out the return line & seemed clear, fumes blow out the fuel fill hole back on the fuel tank.

When machine stalls there is plenty fuel in the filters at bleeders & I cracked the fuel input to injector pump & have plenty of fuel there.

The two end injector nozzles are dry the middle is wet but I did not see any leaks when running. I'll run it & crack the injector nozzles tomorrow - should I see fuel after stalling?

Are there any more tests to do before replacing injectors or pulling the pump? If I pull the pump is there a way to reset timing w/o going to dealer - service manual keeps referring to dealer which would be a 100 mi round trip + $$.

Machine had an engine overhaul (farm grade) about 220 hours ago I put the last 20 hours on as new owner.

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Sean

05-16-2004 12:26:52




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 Re: '68 JD350 Dozer stalling in reply to barryinmn, 05-15-2004 20:58:23  
barry, I'm no crawler expert at all, but I've read of similar problems as yours before (i.e. starting, running for awhile, and then conking out). In many cases the problem ended up being a blocked fuel tank air vent. If the vent is blocked, a vacuum builds up in the tank as fuel is consumed, eventually causing the fuel flow to be interrupted as the suction prevents the fuel from leaving the tank. You can check for it by running the crawler for awhile until it conks out, and then immediately crack the fuel cap and see if you hear a hissing sound as air rushes in. Or just run the crawler with the cap loose, so air can get in and see if it cures the problem.

This probably isn't the problem because jdemaris didn't mention it; he is THE man when it comes to JD's. I've learned alot reading his posts, you're lucky to have his advice. I just wish we also had an IHemaris here, lol.

Good luck

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jdemarisj

05-16-2004 20:04:53




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 Re: Re: '68 JD350 Dozer stalling in reply to Sean, 05-16-2004 12:26:52  
Thanks for the compliment. I've got three International tractors, but an IH expert I'm not.
As far as the 350 Deere crawler goes - as I recall the tank itself is vented and I've never seen one with a fuel problem caused by lack of venting (I haven't seen everything, though). What IS common along the same line of reasoning it the fuel outlet on all the 350s, 450s, and a few ag. tractors. The little brass fitting/shut-off valve that screws into the bottom of the tank has an inner diameter the size of a flea's p*cker. And, there's no inlet screen to keep it from gettin plugged. Seems many a crawler dies from having a tiny piece of leaf or something blocking it. We used to remove them, drill them out, and add a narrow strainer. Problem was silly enough for a small crawler, but it also happens in the 440 and 540 log skidders and 3020 and 4020 ag. tractors.

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barryinmn

05-16-2004 19:59:24




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 Re: Re: '68 JD350 Dozer stalling in reply to Sean, 05-16-2004 12:26:52  
I agree jdmaris is the man! I popped the timing cover off the pump & mouse turds... Have a neighbor coming over tomorrow to help set TDC & I'll pull the pump.



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jdemaris

05-16-2004 07:08:52




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 Re: '68 JD350 Dozer stalling in reply to barryinmn, 05-15-2004 20:58:23  
The following applies to 350s with the DB or JDB pump, NOT the CB pump. Pull the little timing window off the injection pump. It's a retangular steel plate with two screws on the side of the pump. When you remove it fuel will drain out of the pump but that won't hurt anything. Take a look at that part of the pump with the window removed and see if it all looks clean - or - if there are little pieces of rubber floating around that look like mouse turds. If you see the turds, than the plastic weight retaining ring in the governor has shattered. It's a very common problem. Usually, when it goes, the return fuel fitting/check valve keeps getting plugged. The effect being the engine will start, but then will lose power and finally quit. It will keep on starting okay, but won't keep running. In reference to what the other guy mentioned about getting the pump fixed. There are NO replaceable seals inside the pump that carry high pressure fuel. All such sealing is done with very close fitting metal parts. In regard to timing, it's easy. If you plan to remove the re-install the pump yourself just do the following and you can't go wrong. Pull the timing window off that I already mentioned. Then - remove the flywheel timing pin that's bolted to the engine - it's gets removed with a 3/4" wrench. Turn it around and poke it in the hole and then have someone turn the engine over by hand (not with the starter). Put pressure on the pin towards the flywheel. What you are trying to do is - when the engine is on top-dead-center of the compression stroke of #1 cylinder - the pin will line up with a hole drilled in the flywheel and slide into it - thus locking the engine in place. It will go in with the engine either on the compression stroke or on the exhaust sroke - so you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right. You ascertain the correct time to insert the pin by looking at the timing marks on the injection pump once the window is removed. Two lines will line up with each other when all is correct. If you are on the wrong stroke, one mark will be missing from view. It also might help if you scratch a reference line on the pump mouting base along with a line scratched on the engine. Then you can easily put the pump back exactly like it was before. You can probably do that anyway by just lining up the old paint and grease marks. If you are installing a new pump, then of course that won't work. If you cracked all the injection lines loose and fuel is not coming out of all of them when cranking, then you've got other problems. A bad cam-ring, a scored head and rotor, etc. in the injection pump can cause such problems.

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GLewis @ WMATA.com

05-17-2004 08:54:51




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 Re: Re: '68 JD350 Dozer stalling in reply to jdemaris, 05-16-2004 07:08:52  
Amen to jdemaris. I did two pump rebuilds this year for the exact same reason. The only thing I would add would be to say that if you pull the pump, replace the brass sleeve. If it gets worn, you will never get the thing to seal again and you might get surprised by your crankcase filling up with diesel.



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barryinmn

05-16-2004 08:41:14




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 Re: Re: '68 JD350 Dozer stalling in reply to jdemaris, 05-16-2004 07:08:52  
Thanks for the tips again! The pump on this one is a Roosa Master DBGFC 331-13DH.



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bob

05-15-2004 21:08:37




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 Re: '68 JD350 Dozer stalling in reply to barryinmn, 05-15-2004 20:58:23  
drain the water out of the fuel tank behind seat. Blow out the fuel line between the tank & primary fuel filter.



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Dozerboss

05-15-2004 21:58:50




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 Re: Re: '68 JD350 Dozer stalling in reply to bob, 05-15-2004 21:08:37  
Had a 450 that developed the same problem, it would start to skip then die and not run. Sometimes ran for 30 minutes fine then would stall and not start until cold. Sometimes it would only run a few minutes. It turned out to be the injection pump seals losing pressure. I made all the same checks, filters, flow, blew air out return line etc until it was either the pump or injectors. A rebuild fixed the pump and retiming it was easy, the 450 has a hole in the flywheel for retiming the pump. Can't help with the 350 timing. GL.

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