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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Welding on late model machinery with 'puters

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Ray in AL

05-21-2004 16:57:49




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I tried a search but kept getting search "function is under maintiance" If it has been discussed please direct me to the discussion.

I keep hearing stories of horror about welding on late model machinery and equipment attached to late model machinery with 'puters being damaged from stray voltage. Are these stories true or false? Or somewhere in between?

TIA

Ray




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mike

05-25-2004 20:56:10




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 Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'puters in reply to Ray in AL, 05-21-2004 16:57:49  
Ya'll need to know I read in an electronics book one time that overvoltage spikes can damage but not destroy solid state junctions in solid state devices. It damages them and makes the affected device run hotter. Heat is bad. In other words, welding or jumpstarting today may not make a computer or alternator or other solid state device go out at once, but days, weeks, or years later. Then it is hard to put two and two together. But the damage was done long ago. I'am sure cars are better today, but be wise. Follow manufactuers instructions.And carry a cell phone with you!!

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kyhayman

05-22-2004 19:08:51




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 Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'puters in reply to Ray in AL, 05-21-2004 16:57:49  
If you can pull the computer, pull it. Some companies run the CPU or main module off a sperate litium battery (1.5v), unhooking your 12v power supply wont affect it. While not a vehicle I ran into that on a laptop, even IBM swore that it didnt work that way but when you took it apart, there it was.



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the tractor vet

05-22-2004 18:32:54




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 Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'puters in reply to Ray in AL, 05-21-2004 16:57:49  
This is first hand info. One time i had to weld a bracket on the muffler on my 88 Ford F350 4X4 and i unhooked the battey cable and made a 0ne inch weld hooked the battery up and oh wait no start FRYED the putter as it is NOT grounded to the battery BUT TO THE CHASSIE , Three monthes ago we had to weld the headach rack on the 2000 IH Navastar 9900 with the IXS 600 Cummins we unhooked All the batterys and did the welding , OH NO fryed the putter 2264 bucks later truck runs agin, My new rule of thumb is now to REMOVE the PUTTER and place it as far away as i can from the welding as even the RF from the welding can cause a melt down. as i am told.

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Ray in AL

05-22-2004 20:43:04




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 Re: Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'pute in reply to the tractor vet, 05-22-2004 18:32:54  
Well, you're not the bearer of good news. Fortunely I don't shoot messangers.

I've neen advised not to weld a hitch on these late model trucks. I'd rather bolt them on anyway.

Thanks
Ray



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Bruce Christian

05-22-2004 18:32:43




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 Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'puters in reply to Ray in AL, 05-21-2004 16:57:49  
I also agree with keeping the ground close to the piece of work. I also agree with the idea of unhooking the battery ground. I also agree with the not grounding thru a slide or bearings. I have seen PLC's, wiring, and Variable frequency drives at work get zapped by stray woltage due to long ground between work and welder.



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hay

05-22-2004 14:49:52




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 Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'puters in reply to Ray in AL, 05-21-2004 16:57:49  
i asked the same basic question on a welding talk forum and never really got a straight answer. the general consensus was to unhook the negative side of the battery and ground the welding clamp as close as possible to the work area. a few responders also vaguely suggested that a seperate ground from the vehicle frame to earth ground might help with any stray voltage.



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kjm

05-21-2004 20:50:04




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 Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'puters in reply to Ray in AL, 05-21-2004 16:57:49  
If you disconect the battery on any late model car or truck make sure that the radio dosn`t have a security system in it, it will lock up the unit if you don`t have the code. (About 5 years ago it cost 60.00 at the GM dealer to get it turned on again.)



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Chris Brown

05-21-2004 19:22:00




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 Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'puters in reply to Ray in AL, 05-21-2004 16:57:49  
I can't say it won't hurt anything, But I have welded on many computerized trucks and never hurt anything yet. I always disconnect the ground cable on the battery and I make a pratice to ground to the piece I am welding on.I've done this on probably 30 trucks and never had a problem. I even welded on the engine once and it did'nt hurt it.I welded up a P/S bracket and I grounded to the bracket I was welding.

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Ray in AL

05-21-2004 20:03:38




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 Re: Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'pute in reply to Chris Brown, 05-21-2004 19:22:00  
When I started welding, the shop I worked used a fork lift as a welding table most of the time. We never removed the battery cable and the 9 years I was there we replaced the battery twice, which wasn't bad 20 years ago. And didn't require any generator or alternator repairs.

I hadn't heard of disconecting the battery until a customer had a fit over our procedure. Couldn't justify changing as long as we had done it.

But, I keep hearing these rumors and wanting some verification or vindication.

I can see with automobiles that a designed weak link so authorities could use EMF to disable a vehicle, instead of having to use highway tire spikes

But about everyone is in the replacement parts selling business. That is what worries me most.

Ray

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Ray in AL

05-21-2004 19:08:45




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 Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'puters in reply to Ray in AL, 05-21-2004 16:57:49  
I've alwayed practiced keeping the ground near the work. And never grounding through a bearing, or slide.

But I've never been around this newer machinery and heard rumors of welding on one end destroying the 'puter on the other end.

I know to avoid sparks close to a battery due to the hydrogen. I do know the EMF from a lighten strike can destroy electronic equipment without a direct hit or the equipment even being on. But lighten is an extremely powerful force. Where welding is usually a small controlled short circuit. I can see the high freq. from a tig rig effecting a 'puter. But DC doesn't usually go too far.

And what aboout a plasma cutter now?

Thanks
Ray

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Dale

05-21-2004 17:19:41




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 Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'puters in reply to Ray in AL, 05-21-2004 16:57:49  
You're best bet when welding on a machine with a computer is to first unhook the battery. This is common practice to keep from back-feeding to ground and exploding the battery (although, I don't know many people who think about it until they're done). Usually, by unhooking the battery, you eliminate the power going to the computer,thus eliminating a cause for alarm. But, if you can unhook the computer, too (at least the ground), you should be out of the woods.

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harley1983

05-24-2004 17:18:42




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 Re: Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'pute in reply to Dale, 05-21-2004 17:19:41  
We have a 1995 White/Volvo semi tractor, and I have welded all over that thing and not hurt anything yet. The only time I had any trouble was when I disconnected the battery the first time, and then you talk about a meltdown. It shut the puter off and even after I hooked the batterys back up, I had to turn the switch all the way over to the system override location and wait till all the bells and lights quit blinking before it would start. After that I just welded, and it worked fine on this particular piece of equipment. Harley

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Ray in AL

05-25-2004 20:05:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Welding on late model machinery with ' in reply to harley1983, 05-24-2004 17:18:42  
The reason I ask this question I had finished welding on a disk attached to a Case-IH MX 285 with only 300 hours, when a fellow watching me work ask "aren't you afraid to weld on that with all them 'puters". It started and last I heard had been over 2k acres. Guess it was "Dumb Luck!"

Ray



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Brokenwrench

05-21-2004 17:16:34




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 Re: Welding on late model machinery with 'puters in reply to Ray in AL, 05-21-2004 16:57:49  
It is always wise to disconnect the batteries,alternator,and place your ground as close to the area you are welding on as possible.It only takes one voltage spike to take out a couple of boards or a management computer.



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