Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Dozer putting out black smoke

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Matt from Oz

05-25-2004 20:58:27




Report to Moderator

Have a TD 25B with 817B motor that blows considerable black smoke even under light loads. Have had pump and injecters checked,I checked Valve settings, turbo boost, cam timing, return fuel lines,air intake restrictions and engine compression. It is also down on power compared to the old mechanical injected 817 engine. Is threre anything I have overlooked? Matt




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
mightyvalk

11-26-2006 19:16:22




Report to Moderator
 Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Matt from Oz, 05-25-2004 20:58:27  
OK. How good would a big 844 allis motor run if the cam timing was out. Heres what I got.
1. 884 cu inch Fiat Allis 25000 MKII motor.
2. I have had the injectors set at the correct pop off.
3. I have had two different injection pumps on it.
4. No air intake restrictions
5. I have tried every timing mark 6 ways to sunday on both injection pumps.
6. Motor has new pistons,liners,rings and heads done.
The motor starts with little shot of starting fluid. Once it warms up it idles fairly well. It seems like it might be down on power. But under load it just pours the black smoke out.

If the cam was out of time would it still run that good but have those symptoms?

I am going through the same thing...We will get it figured out eventually

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jim

05-31-2004 06:40:40




Report to Moderator
 Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Matt from Oz, 05-25-2004 20:58:27  
Does the smoke clear up when the engine gets rpm's up - if so try checking the air line to the aeranoid valve on the injection pump - was the most common problem when was blowing balck smoke on 817B & C engines.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ihmike(n.e.tx)

05-29-2004 00:16:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Matt from Oz, 05-25-2004 20:58:27  
Matt; I assume when you changed engines you changed the entire intake/exhaust system also as a matched set? Including the turbo? Are you sure it is smoking too much under full load? Or just part load? Which turbo boost pressure spec or you using, for the 817 or 817b? What are you reading?(to see if were on the same page). Was this a good used engine, (complete), when you bought it, or was it a rebuilt never run engine?
mike.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Matt

05-29-2004 02:26:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to ihmike(n.e.tx), 05-29-2004 00:16:15  
Mike, The turbo, exhaust manafold and the air cleaner housing were used of the other 817 engine I took out. I only had specs on 817 engine so I rang up to find out boost for 817B which was 14 to 17psi and this turbo is making 17. This engine came out of a TD25B also. I believed it to be a good used engine.It does smoke too much under partial loads and full loades at different throttle positions.It doesn't seem to use exessive fuel
Matt

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ihmike(n.e.tx)

05-29-2004 12:31:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Matt, 05-29-2004 02:26:03  
Matt; Is it pure black smoke, or does it have just a little grey tint to it? (oil burning from some source, which is hard to determine how much if you only ran it 50 hours) Also could be gaining diesel oil from another source to oil pan, so dipstick reading not always indication of consumption. (new engine is always harder to t/s.) Mike



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Matt

05-29-2004 16:02:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to ihmike(n.e.tx), 05-29-2004 12:31:00  
Mike
It does seem to be pretty much black smoke although it does burn oil under heavy loads(aprox 4 litres in 8 hours).This drops to almost none on lighter loads. I don't know what oil it was running on before ,so the oil I am using could be more detergent.Oil does not look or feel diluted at all.
Matt



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ihmike(n.e.tx)

05-29-2004 21:06:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Matt, 05-29-2004 16:02:16  
Matt; Are you sure you don't have an air leak between the turbo output and the head? These are hard to find especially when you do not have a power-shift transmission and a helper to listen because the only way to find them without stumbling on them is to floorboard the engine in gear and have someone with good high pitch hearing still intact to listen all along the top of the engine. I know you said the press. was fine but just a little bit make a large diff. and what you are telling me is not adding up to me. I wish I was still at my old job as they were some guys out there that knew a whole lot more about engines than me. Check all your gaskets and flanges, hoses unplugged holes? etc. you may have missed or broken when installing new intake system on this engine. If this don't fix it, good luck. Wish I could help more.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Matt

05-29-2004 23:43:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dozer putting out black sm in reply to ihmike(n.e.tx), 05-29-2004 21:06:11  
Mike
It doesn't make sense to me either, I think I've exhausted near all options exept I could put a dial gauge on each pushrod and check camshaft lift,or send the injector pump away again.Thanks for the imput.
Matt



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ihmike

05-26-2004 22:29:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Matt from Oz, 05-25-2004 20:58:27  
Sounds to me like you need to recheck the already checked stuff starting with the turbo boost pressure. Are the rpm's up? Or is it lugging? Is it whistling? How long are you working it, all day like this? Or just a few minutes? What year are we taking about here? old or pretty new.You mention old mechanical inj. like this one is electronic, is it? This info would help T/S problem. Mike



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Gary

05-26-2004 17:04:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Matt from Oz, 05-25-2004 20:58:27  
Just for testing!! Take off air tube at the intake manifold. Start and run eng to see if it clears up a little. If it will run cleaner with that off, it HAS to be a filter restriction.
If that don't work, could you have a hyd valve staying loaded? Is hyd system getting hot? That too will take alot of power.
Check with your inj pump man to see if you could advance timming a deg or two. Try takeing muffler off. That could soot up and cause a restriction on the out put side. Gary

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Kelly

05-26-2004 15:29:36




Report to Moderator
 Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Matt from Oz, 05-25-2004 20:58:27  
Matt,
As RAR/IA has stated, check the whole air cleaning system . That would include under the top of the Air Intake Cap…. clogged holes in the screen will as well restrict the flow of air.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RAR/IA

05-26-2004 13:40:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Matt from Oz, 05-25-2004 20:58:27  
Check the entire air intake system for restriction. Could be a wasp nest, clogged filter(s) or dirty filters or anything. You're getting the fuel, but not enough air!!

Roger in Iowa



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Holz Equipment

05-26-2004 07:00:54




Report to Moderator
 Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Matt from Oz, 05-25-2004 20:58:27  
Take a very close look at your air breather element, place a light inside of it to see as to how much light will shine through.I have seen them look good but will not let air pass through.
Frank



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jerry C. (WI)

05-25-2004 22:09:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Matt from Oz, 05-25-2004 20:58:27  
Checked your fuel filters? Is the turbo pumping oil into intake or exaust? Somebody turned the smoke screw to far out?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Matt in Oz

05-27-2004 17:45:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Jerry C. (WI), 05-25-2004 22:09:57  
Firstly, thankyou for all the imput, To answer the ideas,I checked turbo boost at full load full throttle, I have done about 50 hours since I have installed this motor, this dozer was built in the late sixties, when I talked about the old mechanical injected motor I am referring to a cummins syle injection system which is what the older 817 Inter motors were like before they changed to a bosch inline injector pump,I have thourouly checked intake system, even pulling intake manafold off the head, there was no hyd or trans problems before I installed this motor( is a direct drive)and have played with injector timing.Air filters are good.
Matt

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Matt in Oz

05-26-2004 00:44:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Jerry C. (WI), 05-25-2004 22:09:57  
Jerry, Fuel filters are new and has good fuel pressure, turbo is not putting oil into air intake and fuel screw is set to standard spec.Let me know if you have any other ideas as I'm pulling my hair out here.
Appreciate the help.
Matt



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Matt in Oz

05-26-2004 00:28:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Dozer putting out black smoke in reply to Jerry C. (WI), 05-25-2004 22:09:57  
Jerry, Fuel filters are new and has good fuel pressure, Turbo is not putting oil into intake and the fuel screw is set to standard spec.
Let me know if you think of anything else as I'm pulling my hair out here. I appreciate the imput.
Matt



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy